Michael Hadsell Webboard User Reg: 02-19-2005
Posts: 19
Loc: Englewood, FL
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I need some help here to understand some changes that I have seen in protection training and bite development. Some 20 years ago in my police K9 days when we were bite training a new dog, and this dog was now on the sleeve, we would hold the dog by the collar to get the dog to release, then the helper would come in and take the sleeve back; stimulating defense drive as the dog defends its prey.The helper fights a little for the sleeve and then takes the sleeve away and the dog gets more excited wanting to get the prey object back and the training continues. IF the dog was really high in prey drive, then we would let the dog have the sleeve and circle to relive stress on the dog. In visitng a local Schutzhund club the routine is always the same. Dog bites the sleeve, helper releases the sleeve, handler circles the dog, handler kicks the sleeve away. Why the kick away?????
Different dogs, different drives and different levels of stress.
What you see now is training in pray drive. Agitating dog to guard the pray is not training in pray and it is more stressful. (not needed for pure sport dog??)
That being said i always try to get dog to guard the pray (starting with the young dog or pup, just the bark or snap and I'm running away).
Michael Hadsell Webboard User Reg: 02-19-2005
Posts: 19
Loc: Englewood, FL
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WOWOWOW that seems kinda wimpy to me---- all prey drive! I noticed that when I used the D*&&^%% word (defence) they kinda cringed! I left wondering if any of those dogs could really defend there owners or not?
When I first got into training dogs everyone I worked with would have me kick the sleeve back, now I back my dogs up after they drop it and have the decoy come in and work them in civil. One of my females is locked in prey and I'm trying to wean her off to work more in defense. The other female is very defensive from the start and does good in civil but I haven't put a lot of obedience into her so she's a livewire until I put her up.
Our dogs are started in prey and defence is not brought out until the individual dog is mentally mature for it. Some dogs can handle it much earlier than others. Putting a potentially good dog in defence to early could easily ruin it. Some say if the dog can't take it from the get go, the're no good. My dog at 15 months old is doing fantastic in prey. For a number of reasons, I wont do defence on him till he's more mature. Our TD/helper has told me my dog has tons of potential but because of my SAR work, we're going to bring defence out only when Thunder is mature. He's a very clear headed dog and, right or wrong,I'm going to keep it that way.
Michael Hadsell Webboard User Reg: 02-19-2005
Posts: 19
Loc: Englewood, FL
Offline
I understand the age issue with defence training very well, but these club dogs were 3-6 years in age and supposedly Sch II and III dogs. But still why the kick away just to bypass any chance of defence with the dog? And no defence--- is this what Schutzund has come too?
I guess I can understand prey only if the person has no desire to go beyond club level. The couple of IIIs we have are definately not treated with kid gloves. We have a few up and coming young dogs that are showing a real willingness to forget the sleeve as soon as they win it. We also have a number of pits that do a fantastic job. Prey or not, those guys are a trip to watch. A very nice, yet crazy little Australian cattle dog that would just as soon eat the helper as look at him. Our TD, Steve Pettit, is the whole reason I chose this group above 3-4 in this area. He brings out the best in the individual dog. He's also honest about wether he thinks you dog should be there and what to expect from it.
Who has the ACD in your club? Just curious as there are not a lot of us out there doing SchH with ACDs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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