I am training my one year old GSD for SAR and am having a problem wih him ranging. This weekend he kept falling into heel position as we worked a short open field problem. He did alpha when he entered the scent cone and went into the patch of brush to make the find but I and the unit leader are concerned with his desire to stay close to me. I would like to see him range much more and commit better when he hits the scent cone. To give you a little background on the dog he is a rescue, he is suposeably from German working lines but I can't know for sure. He does have very good drives and nice structure. I have had him since the beginning of Feburary and he was fostered by an obedience instructor since he was 4 months. He is a good dog with lots of potential. I would apperciate any sugestions.

Moved to tracking forum.



Will Rambeau
Moderator

I have heard too much obedience early on (plus probably some confidence issues from being a rescue) perhaps can push the dog to be too dependant. At least it is a suggestion.

Have you just taken him for lots of offlead walks in the woods to build his confidence? Take his ball and play out there to get him away from you. How about with another dog if he is social they can have great fun that way and forget about you, and you can control the distance to what you are comfortable with.

My suggestion would be to make the subject far more interesting than you are. Start out back at your basic runaways for a while. Keep the distance short at first, but then over time increase the distance the subject runs away from you so that the distance your dog has to go away from you to get to the subject increases. Make sure the primary and most fun reward comes from the subject. Pull out the big guns; if he likes hot dogs but LOVES liver, use the liver. If he likes a Kong on a rope but LOVES a fuzzy squeaky toy, use a fuzzy squeaky toy. Basically, he just needs to be so much more interested in finding that subject than he is in being velcroed to you. You should fade into the background a bit and be less interesting. Over time, he'll gain more confidence in what he's doing and he will range ahead further.
Make sure the party is long enough. Two to five minutes of solid partying with the subject should be mandatory before there is any discussing of how the problem went, etc.
Also, whenever he starts to move out away from you, give him verbal encouragement so that he knows you like this.
When you go from longer distance runaways to open field searches, have the subject holler a couple of times enticingly (perhaps even pop up briefly to give him a little visual excitement) while you vest him up. Hold him back by his vest and whisper excitedly "Oh boy, what's that?", then, with great enthusiasm, release him to search while you stand back a little and let him move out ahead.

One more suggestion; when doing the longer runaways, let him watch the person running away for the first half of the distance, then cover his eyes so he can't see where exactly they went. He'll have to switch from visual to scent in order to find the subject.

I like both Nancy and Lisa's thought on this. To much obedience is definately a big problem with a young dog. Fostered by an obedience instructor is a pretty good hint. I didn't start runaways till I knew my dog was absolutely crazy for his kong (Pretty much right off the bat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. From there, it was just a matter of the dog seeing the victim run away with the kong. Depending on your dog's level of training, I would make these "finds" short and close. You may be expecting to much, to fast from a young dog. Go back to basics. Build the dogs drive up with longer and longer visual runaways. At this point, I wouldn't do much hidden finds till the dog is "off the wall" for the visuals. Speaking for myself, I have to constantly remind myself "Baby Steps" all the time. A few good "finds" finds at beginning levels doesn't mean the dog is ready for the next level.

In thinking about things I think you guys are right, I have tried to move him along too fast. This Sundays training was the first time I put him back up before beginning the problem. next time out I'll do some long runaways and maybe a short problem with a call out. As far as too much obedience too soon I don't know, he didn't come to me with all that much obedience at 8 months he knew sit, down and had the beginnings of heel. I'm not sure what the proper balence of obedience is. How much should we be doing daily? I do take him and my husky to the forest preserve daily and let them run and play in the woods and he is comfortable with quite a bit of distance and doesn't seem to have a problem with leting me out of his sight.

How much obedience depends on how you go about it. To this point, all of my GSD's obedience has been motivational. He can't get enough of it cause it's all fun. If your doing traditional compulsion obedience, don't do it on the same day as your SAR training. He has to be totally free of thinking your telling him what to do. Limit his time with the husky. He needs to keep his focus on you.

I don't do alot of cumpulsion in my training, I try to keep things fun and keep him in drive thruout the training session. I play alot of ball games with him and end with a game of tug. He is much more interested in me than in the husky, if he thinks I have a toy he will completly ignore her and bug me untill I play with him.

What is his rewartd for a find? Does he have to work for the toy, or does he just bug you till he gets it? Don't devalue the toy by using it to play without a reward. I consider my SAR dog a pet, but still a serious working dog. There are rules of play that pertain to him that don't to my two house dogs. If the toy becomes common, he wont have the drive for it when he's looking for a "victim". Kinda like free access to a cookie jar. After a while, the cookies aren't that important.......even though I still eat lots of cookies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Maybe not a good compairison. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />