I don't know if it's just not getting thru his fur, or if I'm not putting it in the location I'm supposed to, but I am using an Innotek 300 e-collar, I can shock myself with it so I know it's working, but when I put it on Cujo, the first few times i zapped him with it in the back yard while he was sniffing grass instead of coming when called, he wouldnt respond to individual zaps, i'd have to briefly hit continuous on level 5 or 6 which would cause him to jump in a "what was that!" fashion and make him stare at the grass where he was standing as if thats where the zap came from... now, a few hours later I took him out front to take him for a walk and use the e-collar to keep him from stopping constantly when walking off-leash.... well, I gradually worked up the level n ended up zapping him with a continuous on level 7 n he doesn't flinch, his ears dont twitch, he doesn't look up, he just doesn't care, I tried tightening the collar to make the prongs dig into the fur a lil further, and wiggle it around to get the prongs to dig in - i held my hand on the collar pushing it slightly while hitting him with a momentary on level 5, i felt the muscles twitch but he didn't seem to care, so I waited for him to not listen to me again n hit him with a continuous level 7... nothing, no ears twitching, no looking up at me, just keeps sniffing the grass.

I have the electrodes as high up on the front of his neck as I could (above his adams apple like the instructions said)... I just don't know wether it's just not hitting him because of his thick fur or if he just doesn't care.

I had the same problem when working him with a choker before I realized the damages of chokers and the benefits of prong collars - I could flip him over backwards with that damn thing n the only thing I was doing was getting him pissed off at me instead of listening. I now use a prong collar on him on the dead rings, he's better on the prong but he doesn't "get it" that he has to stay by my side.

The only thing he seems to respond to is food, if I have hotdogs on me, or if we're doing drive work with a tug, he'll listen beautifully and respond quickly, but any correction methods I've tried just don't seem to phase him.

My biggest problem is him pulling towards other dogs he wants to go to, he's not aggressive, he definately understands that I am his pack leader, but he just has a mind of his own and a high resistance to corrections.

So either the e-collar isn't penetrating thru his undercoat (i am using the long prongs that came with the collar), or he just doesn't notice it. At one point i had put his collar on slightly to the side by accident, n I could see the fur on the right of his neck twitch at a level 5, but he still didn't react to it.

I'm not familar with the Innotek 300 e-collar. But, it sounds like the probes aren't making proper contact. Other companies offer longer probes for dog with thick. You might try trimming some of the hair and check to see if the company offers longer probes for when your dog isn't shedding and has it's thicker coat.

I will try it again tomorrow, but I am pretty sure the probes are making contact, especially when I saw the fur twitch when I had it positioned incorrectly. But I could be wrong, it's pretty damn thick right there.

My friends 10 month old dane requires level 7 corrections (strongest) when she's in the hyper puppy "won't listen to anything" doing laps around the yard stage, but somewhere on Ed's site it says he uses the Innotek 300 on his personal dogs so I am assuming it's not a weak product and is of decent quality.

I would try trimming the hair a little and make sure you're getting contact. You might have to move up to one of the e-collars designed for stubborn dogs; your dog may have a higher threshold for pain. I have friends who train hunting dogs and they have to use a stronger unit to get and keep their dogs attention.

Oh yeah that figures, I have the dog that requires the $400 e-collar instead of the $150 one :P I just want him to be perfect on recalls, I'll give it another shot later to see if I can confirm the probes are getting thru the fur, if he definately does have a high threshhold, I'll hafta be returning the ecollar.

Wooohoooo! It was the fur, I tightened the collar another notch n wiggled it around to really dig thru n now he's responding great to it. What a relief <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He learnt quickly, hopefully all the fidgeting with his collar hasn't lead him on to where the pinch is coming from, because he's listening GREAT on recall's now with minimal corrections.

Thankyou for insisting it was the fur, you were right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now the ultimate test will be "does he stay with me off leash when he sees my neighbors yappy white lap dog", unfortunately if he doesn't stay with me, my neighbor will yell at me again for having him off-leash.

Mike what you're doing right now is giving you results but in the long run will cause you problems unless all you want is for your dog to recall.

Please read the articles on my website. Then do some research before you just zap your dog for noncompliance.

Mike,
Try puting a little vasoline on the probes, I've found that to get a good consistent contact from my collar I have to tighten it so much that I feel I'm affecting the dogs breathing. The vasoline will act as a conductor and that way you don't have to tighten the collar so much.

I ordered some special "thick fur" probes from Innotek, if they still don't solve the issue, I'll try the vaseline trick. I'll do some research and read the articles on Lou's site before I start using it. I didn't agree with the training methods on the DVD that Innotek gave me with it, so I was just planning on using it the same way as I would use a prong collar.

My biggest issue is the recall, but any further training I can do with it is a plus. When he's a good distance away from me, he'd rather play keep away with his ball or flying squirrel than come back in the house, this is especially worrysome for me at night in the front yard near the road, I'd hate for him to get hit by a car while trying to run away from me when I want to go back inside.

I'm reading your site now Lou, thanks for jumping in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mike S,
I just wanted to clear something up. You mentioned that you place your ecollar just about the dogs "adams apple" on the front of his throat.

The collar does NOT go there. The collar should be placed on the side part of the dogs neck, no where near the throat. You can make the collar very snug in this position and it does not inhibit breathing, drinking or eating.

I'm really surprised nobody caught that, or said anything about that. It's really important. Keep the collar on the side of the dogs neck.

Personally, I think innotek is a waste of money. I had (still have) a $350 innotek collar. I've had it for about 3 years so I suppose it's pretty dependalbe, the bad thing is, it's crap. The range on it stinks, they say it is supposed to reach up to 300 yars (3 foot ball feilds) I barely make it 50 yards with brand new batteries. That another thing, It's not rechargeable. It only has 4 levels of stim which, on the highest level and one of my friends that have had a few beers can zap them selves on the highest level until the collars safety switch kicks in. That's ANOTHER thing I hate about this collar. If you hold the button down continuously for about 8 seconds, it automatically shuts off for 30 SECONDS! This means, I have NO use of the colar for a full 30 seconds. Then I can stim for another 8 seconds, wait 30, stim 8, wait 30, ugh. It's garbage. I would test your collar to see how long it takes to cut off, then see how long it takes before it lets you stim again.

So I learned the hard way. Now I have a DT systems collar. If you stim for 8 seconds, yes, its shuts off automatically, but as soon as you release the button, you can start to stim again. Stim 8 seconds, release/press, stim 8 seconds, you get the idea.
This collar is rated to funtion up to a mile away, and all I can say is, I got bored testing to see how far it "really" could go. I don't know if it actually goes a mile, but I do know it goes farther then I will EVER need it to. It's rechargable, water submersible, the antenna is built into the collar, it's a great collar.

If you are ever thinking of using any of Lou's techniques, you will not be able to use that innotek collar because you won't be able to because the collar will shut off on you. Another thing is, I don't know about your particular collar, but mine, On the LOWEST setting, was too high for my GSD. There is not way I could do low stim training with that collar, on that dog. Just not possible.

So, anyone in the market for an ecollar, I would take a really close look at the specification/data sheet before you decide to spend your money. The Dogtra models Ed sells here are very similar to the DT systems and the stats are pretty comparable on similar models.

http://www.e-collars.com is a pretty descent website for comparing features and price. They don't carry EVERY brand, but they carry a good variety.

Can you believe some of these collars cost $700 bucks?