Does anyone here have any experience with these Dogs?
More specifically...does anyone here have any experience with Thunderhawk Kennels?

Make that two of us. I've only read about these dogs ( and I'm thinking from their thick coat that they wouldn't thrive in sub-tropical South Georgia <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ) and I'd love to hear from someone first hand about their behavior.

There are other livestaock gurading dog breeds which haven't been spoiled by the show ring <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />..and which can cope with warmer weather..( Not saying Caucasians have but there are lines <as you saw on Thundehawk webpage> that excel more at show than work ?)

Central Asian shepherd dogs

Central asians

or Anatolian shepherd dogs

Anatolians

I'd like to get an anatolian sometime <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It'd be quite a difference experience than from a gsd, to have a stubborn, independent, a calm large dog..yet at the same time they are apparantley very loyal and loving..

Little or no prey drive, not the best choice for obedience <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Bad idea to do schutzhund or any kind of protection work- as they work exclusively in defence and can be hard to control< due to size>

hmm just thought I'd add that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> they are just similair characteristics that many livestock guarding dogs posses.

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Make that two of us. I've only read about these dogs ( and I'm thinking from their thick coat that they wouldn't thrive in sub-tropical South Georgia <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ) and I'd love to hear from someone first hand about their behavior.

I saw a couple Caucasian Ovchartkas at an ARBA show last July in Virginia -- beautiful dogs, but they left early, apparently because of the heat, so you're probably right about Georgia. (I lived in Athens for 6 months, and that was plenty warm in the summer; I don't even want to think about what it is like further south.) The CO's appeared well-behaved in the dogshow context -- no apparent dog aggression (unlike, say, the numerous Cane Corsos, some of which looked like they were ready to tear their crates apart to get at -- whatever was annoying them at the time) and no human aggression, either.

Since Anatolians were mentioned above, I will throw in the observation (made by a friend who had handled someone else's dog at a show as a favor) that the Anatolian she handled was "very edgy." This is a woman with a lot of rare breed showing experience, so I doubt that she was over-reacting. She's the one who steered me away from Anatolians when I was looking for a new dog. She was of the view that it would probably not be a good "family" dog.

Another friend with a lot of rare breed show and breeding experience (mostly Leonbergers) also spoke very highly of Caucasian Ovchartkas when I was looking. He preferred the CO over the Tibetan mastiff (which was where I ultimately ended up). He finds CO's more family friendly than TM's. (And the first friend found the TM more family friendly than Anatolians.)

To be sure, these are the observations of people with relatively little breed-specific background on either of the breeds, but since no one who owns or breeds these dogs seems to be commenting, I thought I would throw it in here for what it is worth.

It all depends, of course, on what you want in a dog and what you are willing to live with. I would second the notion that livestock guardian breeds generally not good candidates for protection training -- they just don't have the drives. In addition, they have been bred for independent duty -- they don't assist the shepherd, they guard the sheep when the shepherd is gone. It's a very different job, and while they can and do fight predators when they have to, mostly they drive them off by making it clear that the cost of getting a meal from their herd or flock is likely to be higher than it will be somewhere else.

One of the corollaries to that kind of independence is that they tend to be slow to respond to obedience training -- someone once described the personality as "cat-like." They know what you want, but they take their time deciding whether they feel like humoring you. If the command is, say, "Out!", most people would probably like a dog that responds immediately instead of thinking about it for a while and then making an independent decision.

For those who feel like googling either breed, there are plenty of websites out there discussing them.

Bryan Veis

Anatolians and most livestock guarding dogs, are not always taken by strangers, so not surprised the dog was edgy. Though I wouldn't judge an anatolian, by the one you just saw.

You wouldn't know if the anatolian was a good family dog unless you owned one yourself or someone who knew had one. The people I know that have them think they are great family dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />..JMHO

They bond and are affectionate with their family not strangers.

We have a guy in our club that is from russia who would be able to give you some info. pm me and I will give you his number.

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Anatolians and most livestock guarding dogs, are not always taken by strangers, so not surprised the dog was edgy. Though I wouldn't judge an anatolian, by the one you just saw.

You wouldn't know if the anatolian was a good family dog unless you owned one yourself or someone who knew had one. The people I know that have them think they are great family dogs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />..JMHO

They bond and are affectionate with their family not strangers.

I don't disagree with any of what you say. The Tibetan mastiff (also an LGD) has the same kind of reputation, and we liked the first one so well that we got a second one. Within limits, a dog is what you make it.

Bryan Veis

I have a Central Asian Shepherd. I have never owned a CAO, but can give my personal experience with my own Livestock Guardian Dogs.
I also had an Akbash. Both were raised in the fields with the livestock. The Akbash bonded tightly to the stock, while the CAS bonded more to me and the stock and property were things to guard outside of that. I chose these two breeds first because neither are AKC show dogs. Next, because I wanted a stock bonding dog to work the goats and a territory/human guard to take care of the other side of things. I had a wonderful working team out here and enjoyed being in the fields with them. Sadly, my husbands leaving left me with liquidating the stock, rehoming my working GSD and Akbash and basically my having to let go of learning more about guardian dog behaviors outside of the 2 years I was able to work daily with them.

First, I learned ALOT outside of the Czech shepherd that I also had. They are not the same type of dog, so your being happy with them would depend on what your need for the dog is to begin with.

The CAS is now a year and a half old. Both of my LGD's were extensively socialized in town and with other people on the farm. I always teach basic obedience so that I can work with the dog with a basic respect in place. The Akbash accepted anyone that I btought into the field. The CAS will "accept" them, but with a watchful eye. You DO NOT enter my field without me, period. He will not let you in and no one has been stupid enough to challenge that. He listens, but definitely will never do great obedience. He is an independent worker and when he knows the job, he does it wholeheartedly. He is a playful clown with me, but has manners. He knows with a look when I am disappointed and is very gentle and considerate around me. He has my friends cattle in the fields to guard and accepted them once he learned that they would not hurt ME. He is forgiving of the one goat that was returned to me as a pet jumping all over him and butting into him. He is not dog aggressive but hates when the family at the end of the road comes to their weekend house to stay for a while. He has never really accepted the poor neighbor that moved in across the street because he is on the "other side of the fence" and needs to be barked at.
I am in VA, so it can get quite humid and hot here. The CAS finds the cool spots in the field where the creeks are. He will lay down or sit in the water to cool off, so the coat is not a problem. The coat is SO thick! My Czech shepherd had nothing on this guy! It is difficult to wash because it repels the water so well. Dunking does better than a hose does. Both LGD's liked lying in the snow rather than going into a shelter. They are amazingly "weatherproof".

I have heard no recommendations on Thunderhawk either way, but I have heard of one out west that is supposed to be good (cannot remember the name offhand--but can guide you to someone who gave the recommendation if you want to email me).
Lori

If you want a sharp intimidating guard dog that will drive people off and take cheap shots when the opportunity presents itself the flock guardian breeds are great. If you need a dog that will actually fight a violent man on command, or in defense of your person, get a traditional working dog who has been bred for it.

Robert, do you have any experience with livestock guarding dogs <just curious>

I have been wondering this for a while. How exactly do livestock guarding dogs defend then ?

I am just trying to figure out how drives interact in LSG dogs,.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Many people will say these dogs, will warn off a threat until it goes away with barking ect.. but when push comes to shove and their is a serious threat to the flock- the dog will not back down ??

Isn't that an indication of fight drive possibly ? I mean these dogs were bred to stay with the flock no matter what- If a man or an aggressive pack of dogs challenges a Livestock guarding dog they will stand their ground, that is what they are bred for ?

Or is it all bluff and these dogs will not actually defend ?

Thanks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />