My friends have a 10 month old great dane that they got 2 days before I got my GSD, they've known eachother since puppyhood (mine was 4 months old and their dane was 10 weeks old) and they have always played rough, but I'm not sure at what point it becomes "too much" and I should step in. My GSD will be worn out from running so he'll lay down somewhere, their great dane never wants to rest and relax, even if she lays down, she'll still roll over to my GSD n start to irritate him to the point where Cujo will give her warning snaps, never growls, never hurts her, just snaps in her direction. When they are both active and playing in the yard, Cujo likes to run, but their dane likes to jump on him instead of chase him, so theres alotta nipping (never hurt eachother just soft nips) n usually (pretty quickly) Cujo will have her down, she'll roll on her back n he'll have his teeth around her neck (not biting, just in position), at this point I call him off her to let her get back up (I swear she falls down purposely, apparently she did this with her brother at the breeders too when she was younger) n she'll come harass him all over again. There are times when they are both pooped n they lay down next to eachother. I'm convinced they don't intend to hurt eachother, but I've never seen a situation like this where she just comes back for more... I thought Cujo was annoyed at this, but when she finally decided she wanted to sleep while we were watching a movie in the home theater, after an hour of him relaxing, I had an impossible time trying to get him to stay away from the dane, he'd go over to her n sniff at her wagging his tail n pretty soon there was a risk that the speakers would get knocked over cuz a 116lb great dane puppy doesn't go down softly lol. He usually nips at her legs then pushes her over when her front paws are crossed, but she'll nip at him just the same.

Anyone care to enlighten me? The vet just told me "puppies like to play rough, as long as there's no yelps and intentionally hurting eachother they're fine".

Hi Mike S.,

Everyone I know has at least 2 dogs. Some of them have big dogs in pairs (as I do) some have a little dog and a big dog and some have little dogs. In any combination, even if the dogs are fighting, you need to let them work it out themselves.
If you keep breaking up the fight, you are A) giving the weaker dog a false sense of confidence and B) pissing the stronger dog off to the point when, you can not supervise, the strong dog is going to really hurt the weaker dog because it's his only shot at doing so before you come in and break things up.

This has always been my experience with 2 males around all the time. I've seen some scary fights, the noises and sounds that come from these dogs is so intense, you think there is going to be a death, everything in you tells you to break it up, but you shouldn't.

These dogs, playing or fighting, need to work out thier differences on thier own.

If you just can't help it and you have to do something about the fighting, throw something at them, make a loud noise, distract them in some way, just don't let them know you did it. You don't want one dog thinking you are favoring the other. This will cause much more problems down the road.

Hope this helps.

Michael,
It is your job as pack leader to control aggression in your pack; it is the exclusive right of the top dog to decide who should be aggressive. If your 'top' dog is being aggressive to a pack member, he is taking rank privliges away from you, and you don't even know it.

It is also the boss's job to preserve harmony in the pack. The pack that is the best to live in is the one with the least stress. Every dog in the pack has a place, and everyone gets confidence and reassurance when all are in their place and doing their job.

At no time would I say letting them work it out is good advice. The strong dog just gets more bold, and the omega dog gets pushed into survival mode. If we force our dogs to live together with no means of finding another pack when things get to hairy (as they would do in the wild), strict hierarchy is necessary.

Mike,

Hear is how I judge if my dogs are getting a little edgy and I need to step in. If I see a lot of role switching, I don't worry about it, ie, the stronger dog is belly up, and the weaker dog gives chase, then they switch positions, and so on.

I intervene when one dog is nagging the other dog to play, the same as if a bully were to say to you 'come on, COME ON! lets PLAY! NOW!' The stronger dog is the one doing the chasing, nipping, scruff grabbing, and t'ing (when one dog stands over the other dog's back). That's not play. That is social dominance.

And Michael, the only time a dog gets a false sense of confidence is when you soothe the weaker dog and punish the stronger dog after a fight. In my pack, when there is a (never now) fight, all go in a down stay for an hour, and I sit next to them and do the 'stare into the sunset' thing, stand over them and in front of them, try provoke them to break the down so I can correct, do everything in my power to show I have absolute control. This way, there is no preference, all are subordinant to ME, and harmony can reign. And all the dogs, including the omega, get confidence in my ability to handle pack dynamics.

And your advise about how to break up a dog fight is just plain WRONG. Yelling, loud noises, frenetic activity of any kind just inflames the fight. With certain dogs, this will end up with one of the dogs seriously injured, or worse.

See the article on the website.

I took the advise of the shelter when I brought my second dog home, to generally just 'let them work it out'. Bad move on my part, I quickly found out, but I had never seen a dog who thought she was Napoleon.

Now she thinks I am. Hehehe.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Michael - your advise to let dogs fight it out to determine their rank in your pack may have worked for you but is very dangerous advise and is not recommended. New dog trainers should not follow this advice.

I am writing a book on dominant and aggressive dogs - it will be released as an e-book and a printed book and contains many emails from people whose have a problem with dogs that fight. There are a number of emails from people whose dogs have killed other dogs in a dog fight.

So while some fights (between males not females) can be loud and posturing, it's not worth the risk.

Their dane is always standing over everyone, if you're sitting on the floor she'll always be standing right over you with her face right in yours, she has no understanding of personal space, which is where my dog gets annoyed. Every great dane I've ever seen likes to be right in your face, they're so big they seem to wanna be eye to eye with you all the time. This creates alot of problems with jumping on people, with big clumsy sharp nails that can hurt.

So who is the stronger dog? My GSD will take her down like that, 116lbs or not, she goes down in 5 seconds flat, and she'll submit by laying on her back, but she's usually the one that tries to provoke him in the first place knowing that she's gonna get taken down, she will get right back up from being on her back to provoking my dog again. Is she challenging his authority? Her provoking isn't necesarily even as bad as nipping at him, even licking at him when he doesn't want to be licked will piss him off, and she likes to paw at everything, teaching her "shake" isn't even a challenge, so she likes to put her paw on Cujo's back which gets him started again. But other times he'll let her clean out his ears for 10 mins straight. Then there's the rare times that she sits her butt down for a while n doesn't want to play, in which case my dog will go over to her n bug her till it starts all over again.

These dogs don't live together, they see eachother maybe 1 day out of the month, if that. Yesterday was the first time I took him over there in at least 3 months, if not longer. It's so damn stressful for me to try and control the situation when their dog won't chill out, 2 kids running around, making sure the kids don't step on my dogs tail or try to sit on him, making sure kids don't get knocked over when dogs are chasing eachother around the house, and maintaining general obedience on my dog. But the behavior is always the same. I do favor one dog over the other. I treat this as a "defending my dog from a stranger" scenario, because I am with MY dog basically 24/7, there is no way I would show preference to someone elses dog over my own. If the dane were my second dog and we lived together, I would treat it differently, but my dog's mental welfare and respect for me is more important than that of anyone elses, I love their dane, but she's #2.

I used to know someone with a dobie about 3 weeks older than Cujo, n I just stopped letting them see eachother because the dobie was getting way too aggressive as he got older.

Oh in case I didn't mention - their dane is a spayed female, and my GSD is an un-neutered male. Don't know if that came accross in my posts or not.

Who is the stronger dog? YOU! You determine when a behavior is inappropriate. I do the same thing Melissa does. If I think the situation is getting out of hand, dogs go into a down stay. Don’t wait until it is a serious fight to stop it. If you are uncomfortable with the “play” for any reason, stop it. If you are concerned one of the dogs is being pushed too far, stop it. If the other dog persists, remove your dog.

I have two unevenly matched dogs that play (supervised) all the time. One is 96 lbs and the other is 35 lbs. And they play really rough. (growling, chewing, heeling, chasing, barking, jumping….) I’ve found it helpful to look at the dogs as objects/toys for this situation. I am pack leader and I own both dogs. If I want one of them in my possession and away from the other at any time, I simply step in and take the dog I want, and the other dog has to deal with this. If playtime gets too rough, I mark the behavior I don’t want with a “NO! down.” and playtime ends. Rough play = no play. I do think dogs need to be able to work things out themselves, but I make the rules on how mine do this.

It took me a few months to get them to where they would play for 20-30 minutes without significant conflict. I stop the play when either dog looks serious or annoyed. I needed them to get along and I persisted and it has worked out very well for me. It might not work out well for you. Good luck.

Mike,
If you are taking your dog into another dog's territory, your dog is the tresspasser, and at a disadvantage should things get serious.

Your solution would be to take them to a neutral place to play, or don't let them play together anymore.

 Quote:

Your solution would be to take them to a neutral place to play, or don't let them play together anymore.

I'll keep em seperated in future. I can't take the aggrevation. I thought I was doing him a favor letting him come along to hang out with me instead of being stuck in a crate, but it's turning out to be a bad idea.

Thanks for all the input <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />