Training Thread: Heeling??
#76073 - 06/10/2005 01:38 AM |
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What are some good ways to start training a dog to heel correctly?
Be as specific as possible please, I'm not the brightest Crayola in the box and I'd like to hear some good methods from start to finish.
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: Robert VanCamp ]
#76074 - 06/10/2005 07:05 AM |
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I like to start teaching the position first. I use food to get the dog/puppy into heel position, then mark it, and then start over. I like to make coming to heel the dogs default behavior. once they are pretty good on this, when they sit I have them give me eyes, mark it and start over. I am looking at this point for them to sit and look at me without the command. then I have them give me eyes for longer periods, then distractions. not too early with the distractions it messes it up. When this is solid I start moving 1 step. I am looking to get eyes the whole time including moving and stopping. Then I increase the amount of steps. (Honestly this is where I usually screw it up too much too fast)
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: jeff oehlsen ]
#76075 - 06/10/2005 07:32 AM |
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I teach this in a very similar manner as Jeff. Teach the basic position correctly, with attentiveness; build in time and distractions before moving to slow, controlled steps. I have been fortunate with my current dog, as she is very attentive and is very toy motivated. I prefer a dog that is highly toy motivated, but food is often good to use in the beginning to shae the correct position.
One of the tips that really solidified my understanding of heeling, is remembering that it is first a position (the Basic Position), and secondarily an action.
I tend to build eye contact up to between 30-45 seconds before moving ahead. The first 'distraction' I use is swinging my left hand over the dogs head to simulate the normal movement of your arm while walking. Then I purposely put the dog 'out of position' in relation to me, so you can begin to teach the dog to adjust its position according to you. I do this by leaving the dog in a 'sit', then stepping to the front, side, at an angle from the dog and then giving the Heel command. At first you'll have to coax the dog into the proper position; via leash manipulation, stutter steps on your part, leading with food, etc...then reward when in the correct position.
This is all done prior to the action of heeling, so the dog is very clear on what position he/she needs to be in, regardless of the circumstance.
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: John Haudenshield ]
#76076 - 06/10/2005 07:57 AM |
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The reason I use food first is it is a calmer drive. When I get the high drive dogs they tend to focus too much on the toy and not necessarily what they are doing. Could be I need the extra step, not the dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: jeff oehlsen ]
#76077 - 06/10/2005 09:30 AM |
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Van Camp,
I've tried several ways to teach heeling with different dogs. I think the most successful way to teach it with a food motivated dog GENERALLY is the Gottfried Dildei way. He does a bunch of food luring first and shows the dog every variation of the heeling pattern to create habits of precision. So he's luring through straight heeling, left turns, right turns, about turns, fast, slow, and so on.
What I generally do (even though I took a different approach with my mal, i wish i wouldn't have but we are doing ok now.) is what I just mentioned and on the side teach the dog to look into my eyes for food in all variations so when he's fluent with all heeling patterns I can start having him looking at me instead of being baited around with food.
To write a post from start to finish on heeling is really not realistic. Shoot, even watching 3 different 60 min Gottfried videos will not teach every thing. But you'll get a much better visual for it although with the Canine training system tapes, it's imperative to pay attention to the audio track. That's where the bulk of the info is.
Does it work? The training director to the club I work in is Butch Henderson. He is consistently placing high in all events he participates in. He's won the dvg nationals twice. Once with a Bouvier and once with a Dobie. He's won the AWDF, he's been on the podium with a GSD, he's competed on a world level several times, and so on.
Most of Butch's techniques are influenced by Gottfried's training.
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: Chris Valdes ]
#76078 - 06/10/2005 10:04 AM |
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In the beginning, while teaching a young dog the heel position, how do you give the dog the treat reward? Do you have the treat (hotdog or whatever) in your mouth and drop it to the dog, do you use your left or right hand to give the dog the treat? Which way works the best?
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: Robert VanCamp ]
#76079 - 06/10/2005 11:44 AM |
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I teach pretty much as John H does. The position first with food. The dog is in a sit and I position myself in the correct spot. The dog is rewarded with food each time it makes eye contact with me.Eventually I add the arm movement to distract the dog. If it looks at my hand, no treat. It doesnt take long that I can wave both arms all around, and hold them out to the side. The dog only get the reward for eye contact. In this position, I use only the left hand here. That seems to keep the dog from starting to forge. One step only, and a reward. Build off of that. I will always continue to randomly reward the first step, first few steps, etc. To many times I've seen people fall into the habit of dropping these early step rewards. You then get a dog that puts out less effort because he knows he wont get a reward till he's done 8-10, whatever habit you fall into.
As I said, I move into the position after the dog is in a sit. Trying to get the dog straight is done teaching the finish.
I reward only with the left hand for heeling. The front is taught with both to keep the dog centered. once the front is solid, I then do the finish. I like to train for the flip AND the go round. With different commands of course.
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: Curtis Knappenberger ]
#76080 - 06/10/2005 11:51 AM |
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Curtis, how you give the reward depends a lot on the dog. I've seen a few dogs that couldn't catch form the mouth if their life depended on it. Either from the hand or mouth, I want my dog to know it's the eye contact that get the reward. Even once the steps are added, it's still the eye contact that will keep the dog in position.
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: Robert VanCamp ]
#76081 - 06/10/2005 12:37 PM |
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Well...I can tell you what is probably NOT the best way: "luring".
The the way I was taught to work my bitch was to place the ball (or treat) at the shoulder and the dog is supposed to follow you in heel position as you move, watching the item.
Learned behavior then puts the dog at your side watching for the lure.
This method did teach "heel", but not "position".
The person who taught me this method then teachs the "attention" at heel separately, with compulsion (ie, prong jerks till the dog to looks up). With the sensitive bitch I have, that complusion was a drive reducer that resulted in a really crappy performance picture.
After watching dozens of videos and attending a few clicker seminars, on my next dog I will be using the method as Jeff describes. It makes waaayy more sense from a training point of view...position first, then motion.
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Re: Training Thread: Heeling??
[Re: Ann Henderson ]
#76082 - 06/10/2005 12:49 PM |
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Well...I can tell you what is probably NOT the best way: "luring".
The the way I was taught to work my bitch
Ann,
Let me first say, and please understand, I am NOT attempting to sharp shoot you, this is not my intentions. I have used various methods, some produce better results with different dogs, but starting out luring is one way I have used, obviously on the correct dog for this method because it worked out beautifully. You said, let me tell you this is NOT the best way. Why is that? What have you witnessed through, your personal training to make the decision this isn't a good method? And is it possible if any negative associations with this was a result of the "trainer" not properly using this method, or even the wrong dog for this method?
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