I am a new handler and I was just given a 3 year old dutch sheaperd, I am its first handler. I have had him about 4 months now. He is a patrol dog as well as a EDD dog. He has a small problem with not comming back to me when we are on searches or traning. Some of the guys in my unit told me to try stuff like, using a hot dog, being his best friend, being very stern on him. I have tried all these things. Just the other day we were working and I was doing some control work with him off lead. He heard a animal in the bushes and took off after it. As I followed him, I tried to call him back, he would look at me and then keep on going. After I lost him in the dark I returned to my car. About 2 hours, later and a mile away from where we were I found him. As I was walking I called him and he finally came up to me. My first thought was he got lost and then when he heard me he came to me. My question is, is there anything I am doing wrong with the dog to make him not come back to me. I feel the bond at home is strong. He is described as a handler sensitvie dog, however a stubborn dog.
We are going through the testing phase where I will put him at a down and he will get up when he wants to. Everynight that I feed him I will put his food down and he can't eat until I tell him to. In fact the other day he went for his food and took a mouth full. I yelled "9" and he spit the food out and came back to me with his head hung low, he was then able to get his food. He has a great drive and he is a great dog with a lot in him that I just have to figure out how to bring out. Any help or suggestions from any of you would be great. Thanks for reading this long thing and if you need any more info please just ask. Thanks again.

I think the following article is still relevant.

http://www.leerburg.com/qaobed.htm#come

Hope this helps.

Thanks, I started reading the artical and it looks like a real good one. I think I will try some of the ideas. What I am gathering is not to many people are a fan of the E Collar?

It seems to me that the cart was put before the horse in this case in that you are doing advanced training with a dog which does not respond to basic obedience commands.

I read the link advised and I agree with it 100%. I would only add that I for one AM a fan of an E collar, but only when used appropriately and at lowest possible level to get the desired response.


I think it is important that you never give a command that you have no means of enforcing should the dog decide to not respond. This I believe is where the E collar is benificial. Once the dog knows the commands, and has been PROPERLY INTRODUCED to an e collar, you have that control in those situations. As you mentioned in your letter, this dog has learned he does not need to obey your commands when away from home because when you recalled him and he ignored you, you had no means of enforcement.

From the description you gave of your dog, he does sound like he may be somewhat handler sensitive. I would be very careful if you decide to introduce an e collar to get assistance from an experienced trainer. I believe e collars definately are a valuable tool, but can be one of the most misunderstood and abused also.

Just my two cents

Thanks very much for the information, it really helps. The dog I have gotten is a KNVPH trained dog, he is great on obideance both on and off lead, however this situation came up and I did not know what to do. I have noticed during training sometimes he will not out unless I have a leash on him becuase he knows that is when he gets the correction. We do use the e collar, however we try to use it as little as possible. This being my first dog I can tell you its a lot of fun, but very frustrating at times. But I will keep doing what I need, I feel I have a great dog I just need to bring it out in him. And I think after a while when we have more time together this problems might go away.... right????

Hi Ryan

Did the previous owner have the same prob?? What is the decoy doing when you give the command to 'out'? You said 'sometimes'...when does he out on his own...ONLY when on a leash?

Going back on a long line until you are well aquainted with the dog would be my plan. To give a command, despite the dogs obvious advanced training, and not have the ability or opportunity to correct him will only make the problem worse and encourage disobedience if done often and regularly enough. Kevin Sheldahl, Brad Smith, to mention just a couple of excellent trainers I have watched will not train without a long line or leash ( corrective measure) available to them. I have followed thier example with much more success and a WHOLE lot less frustration.

Electric might be the answer here but there is not enough information to work with.

Good luck.

I know it seems like simple advice, but then I'm one that does not believe dog training is rocket science. when a dog is having a problem in training, you go back to the last task he can successfully perform, and start working back to the objective in slower increments. Whether it's a long line or electronics, the dog should still be taken back to the last task he could successfully perform.

DFrost

First let me say I really like this you guys are giving me some good help hints.

BRIGIGITA: The dog came from a vendor in Holland and then to a Vendor in FL, where I went to school so I don't know if they had the same problem with him. He will out off the decoy when he has his leash on. Mostley the decoy will try to stand still however the dog will move them around as I am trying to hook him to the leash if its not already done. The dog really wont out on its own, unless he has a toy or even the sleeve in his mouth. When he is tired of it he just spits it out. Oh I did forget to mention that his drive for the suspect far beats his ball drive. I have tried to show him the "Kong" and even shoving it in his mouth and he just turns away from it when he can see the suspect.

GORDON: I have used the long line on him and he is the perfect little gentelman when it is attatched, however when its off he knows this and knows he can get away with some stuff. At training today he did very well came back to me everytime I called him. I know it is hard to break a dog of the instinct to chase other animals or the "hunt" but I think with work it can be done.

DAVID: I am going to try what you suggested, I have always been told end on a good note which I have done everytime. I will start going back to something I know he can do well to end our sessions.
Again I thank you guys very much for this. You were all in my spot one day I am sure so you know how frustrating it is to look for anwsers. I think I have a great dog I just need to work with him and bring it out. I will admit our unit is very young so were all kinda throwing out ideas from what he have learnd at diffrant schools but this helps as well. Thanks again.

I had a similar issue with my Mal when we started basic training together. Everything would go to crap once the leash came off. It was a respect issue. He felt like he didn't have to losten to me when he was off lead and knew (for the time being) that I couldn't correct his bad behavior when he was off lead.

With time your bond will grow and some of these issues will go away on their own. However, I am am one who believes that obedience is the cornerstone of PSD training... without control your dog is a liability. I always make sure I am prepared for my dog not doing what I tell him to when I give him a command. If I can't correct him I don't give a command because you may end up taking your training back a few steps and re-inforce his opinion that he does not have to listen when not on lead.

I also had a similar problem with my dog with the decoy. At first we thought it may be avoidance but we fnally figured out that the dog knew that if he kept working the decoy, the fight was still on. Make sure for right now your decoy locks up hard on your dog when you out him... he will pick up that the fight is over and there is no more fun to be had. In the mean time try working on outs with your dog with balls and toys, giving him fun rewards for outing for you.... he outs one ball, you give him another, or throw one....see what happens.