In the past, I have always started FD training by using a sleeve doing Prey Guarding on a dog that was brought up through Prey Drive development. Is this the best way to start FD training, or does anyone else like to do it differently?

If you are lucky Kevin Sheldahl will answer this. If he does not use the search engine for the board.

I use muzzle work as the basis for fight drive ( in the rare dog that actually has it ) after the dog has a good foundation in prey and defense ( so we're talking about a mature dog here.
I've seen a few dogs display early aspects of fight drive while in the teen months, but I've found it's best to wait until the dog has the full maturity and confidence of being an adult before working on this drive.

And waaaaaay too many think their dog has fight drive when it doesn't. If you have one of those faily rare dogs that *does* have fight drive, take good care of it and spread those valuable genes around, ya hear? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know FD is rare in dogs and I've only seen a few that actually had what I would call true FD.

I like to do Muzzle work also, but I usually do that on a more mature dog. I like to do the Prey Guarding as a beginning to FD training.......I know some guys who like to use bite suits also, but I find it easier to use the sleeve at first, and then advance to the Suit and the Muzzle.

Since fight drive doesn't usually show up in puppies, even if they'll have it as adults, and most people start bite training with puppies, it's all but impossible to work a very young dog in fight. Prey drive is good for building the foundation of biting and for working on problems that may develop along the line.

The drive a dog is in during a bite is determined by the decoy, not by the dog. He reacts to what the decoy does. Generally, if he pulls away from the dog while making lots of noise, the dog will go into prey. If he stands straight up or goes over the top of the dog, he'll go into defense. If he goes over the top of the dog and makes hard eye contact, the dog will go into fight. If he does a combination of these things various drives will come up at various levels. With a dog that has a good level and balance of all three drives you can see the dog's body language change as a decoy goes through this range of behavior. With a mature dog that has fight drive, I don't think that the tool that's used is that important. It's the attitude (body language) of the decoy.

Also remember that even if present no drive exists by itself in a vacuum. They're all in play to some degree at any given moment.

Fight Drive. Is fight a "drive"? Is it needed for the species to survive in the wild, such as food,sex. Don't dogs and other animals survive without a desire (drive) to fight. What brings out the fight in animals, in people? Is it a drive or an attitude. What is the meaning of the fight and why does it happen? What are the consequences of fighting to a dog in the wild? What must there be on the part of the fighter prior to engaging in a fight? Before you begin to think about training fight drive you must realize what a fight really is. That ought to bring Kevin out!
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What do you consider to be fight drive? I have a 15 month old Sheperd and when he bite the sleeve he wraps up and sherds on the sleeve. Is this considered fight fight drive?

The best discussion on combat drives that I've seen can be found on Donn Yarnall's website at http://www.donnyarnall.net/store/art.htm#FB

It's in the article on the find and bark.

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I like to do the Prey Guarding as a beginning to FD training.....

If you do this with the sleeve and quickly pick it up and then the dog gets a bite, I feel this is strictly defense and prey. He's in defense guarding his prey and when it gets up and moves (you or decoy grabbing it) that puts the dog in Prey, his kill just got up and ran away. (God that sounds like Army chicken <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Even just having the dog guarding the sleeve IMO is strictly defense. I believe I may see how you are arriving at this as a begining to having your dog start to further develop what we all hope is there, but I am honestly intrested in a further explanation. Not to knock what you say, I always like to hear the other side of the fence I like to think of myself as not close minded (Well I am on politics but not dog training <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.
~CHRIS D

This is going to be a smartazz reply, but this is exactly how you start working your dog in fight drive.


You find really experienced helper who has some experience, not only in sport work but also in real life application, and you train with him/her!

LOL