Im new in knpv and would like some tips. I just started my malinois male in bitework, He has been biting in schutzhund arm and 2 times in bitejacket. I wonder what is the best? Too let him bite and win jacket for some time or just go on and teach him to release without winning? Can anyone help me?

Win the jacket is what we do in ring. I would look for some KNPV specific articles on the internet as well.

Over here in Holland, we only let young dogs win the jacket. After they have won and have walked a bit with the jacket their grip starts to loosen, it's then very important to make them let go. Then we put enough tension on the line, in order to prevent the dog from reaching the jacket. Then we make the dog bark at the jacket in order to learn the concept of guarding. After we have done that for a while we start shifting the concept, we start to make the dog angry by screaming and hitting the ground with a stick, when the dog shows enough rage, we let him bite ( then a familiar concept for the dog ) when the dog loosens his grip we make him let go and the decoy runs away screaming loudly. After a couple of reruns we end the exercise by letting the decoy aproach the dog, again screaming and shouting and when the dog makes his attack, the decoy runs away. It's very important that; to end the exercise the dog must not be able to reach the decoy, in that way we make the decoy interesting and we give the dog self confidence ( he makes the decoy run away...) After repeating that we can start to learn the dog it's biting-spot on the jacket(or the pants..) We do that by, taking the dog by it's collar and putting him on the spot ! When the dog bite's the right spot we gif him more confidence by letting the decoy kneel down so the dog stands on his 4 legs. We make the dog bite the jacket fuller and better by keeping a little tension on the leash( So the dog is aware of the presence of his handler and loosing the tension will then make him bite better. It's also important for the handler to motivate his dog by giving him support with a high tone of voice.
When the dog is ready for the next step we start sending him at a distance of 5 meters, when the dog show's that he knows where to bite we start to make the distance bigger. Even in this stage we end the exercise by letting the leashed dog attack the fleeing decoy, without beeing able to bite the decoy ! Well, ít became a long story....
I'm sory if my writing isn't flawless, but english isn't my native language.
I wish you much succes !
And if you have any questions, feel free to ask me !
Martijn Eijbersen

Your English is perfect to me! Feel free to write as long as you want. I never get to hear about knpv training, so I will always be interested. Thanks

Same here man, good english, and very understandable. Stay around the board we need a KNPV guru around, take care.
~CHRIS DUHON

Martijn,
That is the best description of how the KNPV trainers do foundation work that I have ever seen in written form.

I have been fortunate enough to have trained with some of (what I consider) the better trainers in The Netherlands, and none of them explained thing the way you have.

Your contribution is greatly appreciated.

Dankuwel. (hope I spelled that correctly).

Hi Martijn,

very cool description.

I have some questions (not on bitework)...
how do you get young dog all fired up about box in large article search and don't make him wan't to eat it in the process? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I could teach him to run to the box and bark his brains off for food, but somehow i think i am missing something here...and i know what dogs that see box as pray object and are frustrated with it do to the box when they find it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What is done in my club for suit training is to begin it in prey drive ( this was taught to me by an old KNPV trainer when I visited Holland for a month, and our best club decoy had also learned it in Holland more recently, so this must be a fairly common technique used in that part of Europe ) - the decoy wears the jacket on backwards and unfastened and the dog is back tied and several close approaches are done to the dog to build drive and frustration. The decoy then gives the dog the bite and slips the jacket off, while the handler immediately unhooks the dog off the back tie and runs the dog on leash with the dog dragging the jacket away in victory.
If the dog stops while holding the jacket, he's receives the "out" command, as we don't want him chewing on an inanimate jacket.
This method has seemed to give better grip development as the dog is in prey for this training. Defense is added later when the dog is of the appropriate maturity level to handle that and has gotten his full grips developed.

Hi Ivan,
You wouldn't believe me, but I just wrote a complete story and I just lost it .... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Over here we have several methods of learning the dog the large article search.
I prefer the following method :
I put the box ( Height=15cm, Width=30cm, Length=45cm ) on the open field and I bring my dog to the box, when we're there I make him stand on top of it with his front legs and I command him to bark. It's really important to motivate him enthusiastically when he's barking, but I don't allow him to step of and I try not to give the command to bark to often (The dog must learn to bark on his own !) The first times, I don't expect him to bark for that long ( He must stay enthusiastic to do it for me), when he has barked a few times continuously, I reward him ( I use a ball ). When the dog understands that, he must guard the box, I start creating a little distance ( Not more than 2 meters), keeping control by holding the leash and motivating him to bark. When I think the dog understands it, I do the same exercise and when the dog is barking, I walk backwards letting go of the leash, if the dog steps of( I never allow this !) I take the exercise a step back ! I only stop with a exercise when done correctly and I alway's reward the dog after a well done exercise. When the dog is used to the bigger distance, I put the box in the forest. The first time in the forest I stay with the box after I've put it away ( Creating a fresh and strong smell trail) and I ask someone to hold my dog on the edge of the forest. Now I call my dog once, loud and enthusiastically, since he can't see me he'll try to find me by smell. When he arrives I am the happiest man on earth but nevertheless I'll remind him to guard the box. I don't do this too often because I want the dog to search for the box and not for me ! So having done this a few times I ask someone to put the box in the forest just behind a few bushes, then I get my dog (Never walk back over your own track, the dog knows the direction of a track, so walking it back will only confuse him). I walk the track with my dog, since the box is behind some bushes he'll not able to see it, then I send him and when he finds it and guards it I'll reward him. This method is not the only one, over here people in the KNPV use another method very commonly, I'll give a short description : Tie the dog, by his leash to something strong and walk up to him staying just out of reach, then make loud noises and throw the box around. The dog will develop prey drive for the box, but usually his prey drive will over-develop. This happens here a lot ! The way to prevent the dog from biting the box is using a box that can deliver electrical shocks (Every KNPV club over here own's such a box !!!!) I don't prefer this method........And with the police dog 2 (PH2) certificate, you'll have to do the large article search with a rifle instead of the box...
I hope I helped you a bit, if you've still got questions please ask them !
And for Scott Whigham; Dankuwel is spelled correctly !!!!!!!!
Hope to hear more soon !
Martijn Eijbersen