Hello From Canada!
Some departments around mine are having their K9's wear E-collars while on duty. I have had a few discussions around work and have been presented with a few arguements for and against the idea.

For- you have control of your dog in an instance where he is in a confrontation during which he is going to be injured by the assailant and you need him out now, or he has targeted the wrong individual.

Against- simply having the collar on implies that you do not have the required control of your dog, or that handlers will not train to the standards without the collar because they always have it to fall back on, subsequently leading to a lesser trained dog.

I am interested in other opinions on this and if your department has chosen this also or has chosen not to do this, I would like to hear arguements for both.

best regards

Chad

LA has had their K9s wear e-collars for many years. The trainer or departments that says "simply having the collar on implies that you do not have the required control of your dog" is a trainer who needs a lot more experience training and deploying police dogs.

This is just about the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. I wonder if these same people would claim the same thing about wearing a fur savor or useing a lash.

Here is my answer to this ridiculous concern about wearing e-collars on duty.
First this isn't a sport. The fact that a collar provides a fail safe on the street cannot be judged against the handler/dog team in any way.
Second, from a training aspect we can prevent a dog from learning street behavior vs. training behavior, and any experienced police dog trainer will tell you that some dogs are prone to this problem, others are not. But, in applying the e-collar, particularly early in the dog's career and putting it on them like it is part of their uniform, often provides the means to consistancy that prevents such problems. The dog know the collar is there, I don't care how much time the dog wears the damned thing. What we are attempting and succeeding in doing is making sure the dog's performance is consistant, that they know no other way than the right way to do their skills. You cannot do this with on and off again collar use.

The dog's in my unit (6) and most of the surrounding agencies go to work with e-collars on. Hell, the training is so consistant that the things are seldom used! The most frequent use on the road is early on when crittering is a problem, and being distracted by urine and other dog odors. I hate to see handlers go over and correct their dog with a leash for sniffing pee. Just shuts 'em down. But low level e-collar work doesn't.
When will a handler go up, put a leash on a dog that decides not to detain, or to not release when told to on the street and in an altercation with a suspect? First it may not be a safe thing to do, second, it is last thing on a handlers mind at that point. But, with an e-collar the consistant reinforcement can be there, and be part of the work in the same manner it is in training......consistancy. The key to very good work.
I've had criticism of some of the police dog teams I work with. I find it funny. The criticism being that they are too correct. That somehow some old archaic jerk and release, hidden wrap, nasty dog snare pole style dog trainer doesn't think they will bite because they are "too clean". Ha, ask the bad guys with nice clean four puncture wound good compliance easily defendable dog bites on their hind ends if the dog was too clean, or the Tac team that relies on the dog to engage a serious bad guy and extract him from a hole they crawled in somewhere.
Disciplned, balanced, well trained dogs are not just a occaional marvel in the police dog world as they once were, they are the industry standard. Old timers need to catch up quit the BS and come into the Glock age of law enforcement (for those that don't understand that statement, the old timers scoffed at the plastic gun Glock made, now they are on most duty belts accross the globe).

<<<Old timers need to catch up quit the BS and come into the Glock age of law enforcement >>>

Just for the record, of course you mean, SOME old timers. I agree with what You, Mr. Frawley and Mr. Castle have said, and I wear a Glock.

DFrost

Hey Lou, just to be the devils advocate <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, how do we tell the difference between,"In the second, it's a sign of poor training", poor or lazy trainer's from the good trainer's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Alan if the handler is frequently or even constantly "on the button" when the dog is being trained or worked, the Ecollar is being used as a maintenance device and the dog isn't trained, he's being managed. If the Ecollar is removed and the dog performs as well without it as he does with it, he's trained. If the performance falls apart, the dog is being managed.

"If the Ecollar is removed and the dog performs as well without it as he does with it, he's trained."
Perfect <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with all of you here. I use the collar during training to assist in areas that it is feel necessary, however would not use it as "the only" tool for training. I see several benifits for having it on while on duty, and your comment that it is an old timer way of thinking is bang on in my opinion.

Ultimately these dogs, no matter how good they are and how hard you train, in the end training is just that, training and they are just animals. Unfortunatly they often learn the difference.

From a civil side of things I see where it would be very advantageous to have the collar if it will avoid a law suit.

I know of a few dogs that will call off in training and have not on the street and this is where I feel it will pay off.

Now telling the people that they are stuck in the past is not going to cut it. How about some more articulate ideas to put forth that may change some minds?

Departments, or policy that outlines the intended use ect.

Thank you for responding
Chad

My dog wears he se-collar to work every day. And although he wears it every day I might only use it once a week. I work in a suburban / urban environment and need total control when my dog is off leash working. I get that with my e-collar. It’s the one way I can always be prepared for my dog to not do what I want him to…..especially when off leash.

The e-collar is a most effective dog training tool in the correct hands. One of the best uses is what Kevin related to, " The most frequent use on the road is early on when crittering is a problem, and being distracted by urine and other dog odors. I hate to see handlers go over and correct their dog with a leash for sniffing pee. Just shuts 'em down. But low level e-collar work doesn't.", which allows the handler to correct the dogs behavior so it associates the correction with behavior rather than the handler. The collar is also useful with nervy dogs, such as Malinois, to reduce handler sensitivity.

And this is from an OLD TIMER who is not a proponent of e-collar transmitters in every dog handlers hand. But I do have an e-collar and I use it when the time is right.