 Training question: fast outs.
#79254 - 07/19/2005 12:22 PM |
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For Sport and Practical dog trainers:
How do you train for fast, reliable outs...?
What dog temperament considerations should be taken into account?
Should the out requirement IN TRAINING be different for sport vs practical?
Thanks for your input.
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Andres Martin ]
#79255 - 07/19/2005 12:26 PM |
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I'm moving this thread over to the SchH section as a discussion about "fast outs" is a sport question, not a protection question.
Will Rambeau
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#79256 - 07/19/2005 01:39 PM |
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I'm moving this thread over to the SchH section as a discussion about "fast outs" is a sport question, not a protection question.
I guess this is answer to your question. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
No really, BR, FR, even KNPV style out's are so fast but i don't think they could be like that in real world. Or am i wrong? Or is this something Public Joe does not have to know? (now this is not troll post - just want to know when old timers say - attack dog bites and you have to take him off the bite (like that G.I.G.N. video that circles Internet) - is it true, or is it justifying lack of training).
And i am not talking about your regular patrol dog.
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Ivan Sarac ]
#79257 - 07/19/2005 01:50 PM |
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Real life conflicts usually involve some type of struggle and fighting between the perp and the dog ( or else it's not really a conflict now, is it... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> ). These actions further activate the dog and usually decrease a dog's ability to do an obedience command, which is what an "out: is.
Most Police Officers will tell you that they've had to literally drag their patrol dog off a struggling perp that would not respond to the order to "STOP FIGHTING THE DOG!!" It's both human and dog nature.
And yeah...the outs in FR have to be seen to be believed. The dogs *fly* off the sleeve.
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#79258 - 07/19/2005 02:04 PM |
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Most Police Officers will tell you that they've had to literally drag their patrol dog off a struggling perp that would not respond to the order to "STOP FIGHTING THE DOG!!"
this can be translated to training as a green decoy that does not understand meaning of 'STAND STILL' and sh***** your fast out. I am guilty... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Back to drives question - this means that for fast out dog has to be in pray to do it right? Pressure from decoy, or pressure from handler and the right dog just bites harder? Or is it again bad training?
Is it possible that two tugs method won't work with some dogs? And how desirable would that kind of guarding behaviour be? (not willing to trade toys)
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#79259 - 07/19/2005 02:43 PM |
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And yeah...the outs in FR have to be seen to be believed. The dogs *fly* off the sleeve.
No links? There was one dog that I saw Sunday that spit the sleeve out almost before the 'aus' command was even finished! I love it!
PetIDtag.com Keep ID on your pet! Profits go to rescues in NC |
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Kristen Cabe ]
#79260 - 07/19/2005 02:53 PM |
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Ummm Kristen, you do know that the speed of the out is entirely due to the points system of FR, right?
A SchH dog isn't graded for that ( unless the out is "slow", just releasing is full points in SchH ), and the FR dogs gain points by a rapid out - *however*, they also are not graded on the *quality* of the bite, unlike SchH dogs.
And usually a dog is trained for the rapid out with strong compulsion and E collars. And when that training causes a weaker grip ( like it usually does ) there's no disadvantage on a FR dog. However...it ends up a massive disadvantage for a SchH dog.
You're comparing apples to oranges there. Unless the dog doing a fast out has a killer grip, it's useless......and often it's a warning sign that the dog doesn't actually want to be on the sleeve. You'd need to put the sleeve on and test the actual grip to get the real story there.
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#79261 - 07/19/2005 02:57 PM |
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Also, this is a point that I've made to you before - you need to have an experienced person with you when you're doing your dog shopping. Sometimes what looks good to you as a beginner is in truth what would be a warning sign to an experienced trainer.
The above post serves as a good example of that.
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#79262 - 07/19/2005 04:50 PM |
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Oh yes, I know that SchH dogs aren't graded on how fast they will 'out', but I just think it's cool when the dog immediately outs and begins the bark and hold, rather than chewing on the sleeve to out, like I've seen many SchH dogs do.
I'm a perfectionist, which could be the death of me lol. When I tell my dog to out, I want him to out, not chew for 2 or 3 seconds first. Of course, I wouldn't want to train the out in the manner you described for FR dogs. I can see how that would affect their grip and confidence while on the bite.
I can't remember which dog it was that I was referring to, but I am pretty sure he wasn't weak in the bite. Wayne won't have a dog that doesn't bite hard. lol
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Re: Training question: fast outs.
[Re: Kristen Cabe ]
#79263 - 07/19/2005 04:51 PM |
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Basically, I just like to see a dog that responds immediately to commands, that's all I meant by my post before.
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