I've spent the last few days contacting vendors and pricing dogs to replace a patrol/narc dog at our department. One vendor I talked to asked if we would want the dog to activly or passivly alert. Both of our dogs were active alert dogs and the only passive alert dogs I know of in the area are the local bomb and arson dogs. Does anyone use a passive alert on their narc dog? I can see the benifit of not ripping up the car but I can also see where you will have to do alot of guessing at where exactly the dog is alerting to.... ie vehicle interior searches. Opinions?

Matt,
I persoanlly prefer the "aggressive" K-9. Maybe I just haven't seen the properly trained "passive" alert K-9, the few we have in our area, I'm not impressed with. However, it all falls back on what your administration and your unit decide.

Good luck,
Mark Addison

I work a passive dog. first off if the dog is trained properly there is no "guessing" where the narc is located because the dog will pin point where the hide is located and not move. most people think that when a dog passively alerts they always will sit. this is not true if a dog is searching and his front legs are off the ground the dog thinks he is sitting because of a thing called propreception (sp). dogs have kind of like a mercury switch in them that lets them know if they are level. so if there is a hide is an ashtray the dog will stay with its nose directly on the ashtray. for a better explination call ken licklider at vohne liche kennels http://www.vohnelich.com and he can explain it better. he is the master at a passive dog. hope this helped and i didn't confuse you.

My explosives detectors are of course, passive. I also have 2 or 3 drug dogs that are passive as well. Trained correctly they indicate as close to source as any aggressive response dog. The majority of my drug dogs are aggressive response by my chosing, but it is a personal thing, not a matter of proficiency.

DFrost

A passive alert dog trained properly will focus on the spot where the find is.One that is trained poorly will be looking at the handler for the reward.

Matthew, I see all those in favor of passive alert, or indication have seen dogs that are not well schooled in this technique, I whole heartedly support their warning, the passive indicating dog is a triple bonus on every deployment, it’s a safer dog to work, it’s the way to go, a customer pleaser, it wont turn over or damage the packaging, wont in hale or chew on the drugs, can be deployed at five star venues, like Caesars Casino, in Schools, Airports, Hotels, Night Clubs etc. with no angry patrons and managers that try and get you out of the building as fast as possible as soon as possible. I have turned all our detection dogs to passive indication with good results.

I have a dog that is trained for aggressive and passive. He will do a passive with people (this is not in the US) aggressive with all else. The neat thing about him is he will give an active indication and then sit. (Semi-passive?)

One of my collegues is training his dog completely passive, all the others are aggressive. The only negatives I observed during training is if the dog is into scent, he will sit and the 'hide' is not actively pinpointed. Especially if your dealing with wind currents, I watched this dog sit downwind from the 'hide'. So as stated before, good training plays a part in the passive development.

BTW, Matthew, did you check Josh Lewis (New England K-9) I recall he had a nice dog for sale.

Having trained numerous explosives and drug detector dogs with a passive response, off source or fringe, should occur no more frequently than with an aggressive response dog. The ability of the dog to go to source is strictly a result of training.

DFrost

Jon- sorry about the use of the word "guessing". I found a guy in our county who has a passive alert dog (large GSD) who stated that the only problem he has is when the dog can't fit between the seat and the dash and has to do the detection work on the seat itself the passive hit for objects inside or under the seat is not as precise as he would like....and therefour has to "guess" as to where exactly around the seat the dog is hitting.

I want to check on the legality in Pa. of using a passive hit on people.... may open a door to addressing some drug issues we have here. I think the majior influence in the decision will be the posability of eliminating the damage complaints we got as a result of consent searches.

I want to check on the legality in Pa. of using a passive hit on people.... may open a door to addressing some drug issues we have here

It is pretty much a DO NOT DO...see Horton v Goose Creek Unified School District and B.C. v Plumas County for federal case law.

As far as whether to go active or have the dog take a position for the indication it is a pretty well worked over subject. I really don't care although I have found less problems w/ active indicators among dual pupose dog handlers w/ their first dog. This is simply a function of new handler..new dog...and what is easiest to comprehend and evaluate in those formative few months when they get started. Very easy to keep them doing primary rewards and understanding working to source at the beginning with active indicators.
There is also the old saying the more natural a behavior is the more reliable it will be and digging out a prey item is pretty natural.
that said, there is no reason that properly trained and properly maintained sit or down response dog can't do just as well.
It is also common with narcs to start a dog digging out the aid then get them switched to sit to flush their aid a bit later producing a bit of a staged response of working to source and being pushy about getting there and then sitting. many will even scratch when they can't get enough room to sit or even scatch briefly before finishing up and sitting.