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Passive Narcotics GSD
#8327 - 10/09/2003 08:20 PM |
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I am new to this board I have been a Narcotics K9 handler for almost 5 years and currently I have a Mal who is trained for aggressive alert. I just recently purchased
(6 months ago) a GSD and he is at 7 months right now, his drive is fantastic but i would like to train him for passive... Any pointers would help me out alot he tested out for bite, tracking and narcotics but my concern lies with his strong drive. or do GSD not make a good passive dog
Mike
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8328 - 10/09/2003 09:38 PM |
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Im not talking about you Michael but this brings up something I find very interesting. Lots of people for some reason think that high drive dogs should be aggressive alert and lower drive dogs make better passive alert dogs.In my experience this is the exact opposite of the truth.High drivedogs make the best passive alert dogs and lower drive dogs need their drive built up and turned into aggressive alert dogs.Actually high drive dogs make better passive and better aggressive.A lower drive dog needs its drive built up instead of saying "this dog is a candidate for passive alert". To put it another way if some one gave me 2 dogs and said they wanted 1 aggressive and 1 passive, I would turn the higher drive dog into passive and take the lower drive dog and build the drive and turn it into aggressive.
Stop making excuses for your dog and start training it! |
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8329 - 10/09/2003 11:29 PM |
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Michael, you might want to get with a border Patrol agent in the evnet that is reasonable obtainable. They teach passive only and I have yet to see a low drive BP dog.
The tree of Freedom needs to be nurtured with the blood of Patriots and tyrants. Thomas Paine |
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8330 - 10/09/2003 11:36 PM |
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OK David, I'm new to training working dogs so bear with me.....you kinda lost me and I would really like to understand why this works the opposite of the way it seems. Can you explain further why this works ? It just seems like it would be a lot less work to use the innate temperment and drives the dog naturally has than try to tone down the high drives of one dog and increase the lower drives of the other...or am I totally off base?
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8331 - 10/10/2003 12:06 AM |
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When a dog has a passive alert it doesnt also mean a passive search. All narcotic dogs that are passive or aggressive indicators should have a very active, motivated search. You are not toning down the drive in a high drive dog if you teach it passive alert.A dogs indication is whatever you teach it to be. A high drive dog taught a passive alert will give its passive indication very quickly, it is very clear and very enjoyable to watch. If you have a low drive dog I think it is a mistake to put a passive alert on it if you have a choice. When working with a low drive dog you are already going to have to build the drive up, so you should continue building the drive right on through the indication training on the scratch box.
Stop making excuses for your dog and start training it! |
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8332 - 10/10/2003 12:12 AM |
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When I said that is the opposite, I didnt really mean it the way it sounded. A high drive dog can be turned in to whatever you want. Its the low drive dog that I believe is the opposite of what some people think.It needs its drive built up and turned into an aggressive alert.
Stop making excuses for your dog and start training it! |
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8333 - 10/10/2003 10:55 AM |
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OK, now I understand. Thanks
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8334 - 10/11/2003 01:15 AM |
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Ed is producing a new narc detection training video, when it comes out, only he can tell you. If he does it with any of the top trainers available to him, which I'm sure he will, it promises to be top shelf product. To explain how to train a passive ( or actively) indicating dog in posts is nuts. I defer to the post that differentiates between passive alerts should not be confused with passive searching.....I assumed that this was understood, my mistake.
Border Patrol likes the passive alerts because of reward delevery systems. Matt Devaney will tell you it is harder to train but maintaining it is not as difficult and the dogs don't go "dormant" on you as an active indicating dog can. NNDDA is a good resource for more information.
The tree of Freedom needs to be nurtured with the blood of Patriots and tyrants. Thomas Paine |
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8335 - 10/14/2003 08:52 AM |
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Passive response detector dogs are nothing new. We've been training the passive response, that I know of anyway, since the 60's. Mine, tunnel, tripwire dogs were all passive as are explosives detectors. Of the 45 dogs I currently have working, all the EDD's are passive and a few of the drug are passive response. The passive response is no more difficult to train and/or maintain than any other response or command. There are no diffences in "going to source" except for the obvious "don't touch" and there is not an increase in false response rate, off source or "fringe" responses. The only difference, in my experience, the dog sits (even had a German Shorthair that pointed) instead of aggressing on the target. I use the aggressive response in drug dogs purely for personal reasons. I'm old, in charge, and darn it, it looks soooo good. Other than that, there isn't a hill of beans differnce.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: Passive Narcotics GSD
[Re: Michael Plum ]
#8336 - 12/09/2003 07:26 PM |
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I like this. Open minded discussion about passive v/s aggressive response. I work a passive response drug dog. The statement about the high drive dogs being best for passive response was right on the money. We wash dogs out if their drives aren't strong enough. The high drives are just as essential for passive response as they are for aggressive response. In all fairness, I've never worked an aggressive esponse detector dog. I have several in my training group. The most important aspect is the training methods and goals.
Training is not a spectator sport!
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