Targetting problem
#902 - 04/24/2002 03:02 PM |
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Looking for input...I have a now 8 month old mastiff breed pup that I am training for Sch. Shows alot of prey drive (for breed) has a nice grip and no problems with the stick or being driven, all bites have been given in prey. I'm starting to worry about his targetting. He does not seem to compensate well for any lateral movement from the helper. When he is tied out and the helper does a run by, he is almost always behind the sleeve and ends up getting a crappy elbow bite (he will re-adjust in when given the opportunity), so we started just doing backups and straight on presentations of the sleeve. He was doing very well with this. Now however if the helper starts to drift to get out of the way of the dogs momentum, the dog does not adjust well and gets a shallow bite or may miss entirely. Is this just puppy lack of coordination (he is not what one would call gracefull)? Any suggestions on how to improve this or is this something I should worry too much about and see if it improves as he ages? Thanks for any input.
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#903 - 04/24/2002 03:35 PM |
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What exactly do you mean by a run by? How is the helper presenting the sleeve?
At 8 months old and being such a large gangly breed you might have the answer right there. This isn't a traditional SchH breed.
Or you could be presenting the sleeve in a crappy way. Remeber this isn't a GSD. There hasn't been generations of dogs selected specifically for their quality of bite and targeting of the sleeve. Even some GSDs have problems getting nice bites on the sleeve in the begining. It usually has to do with presentation and rushing the bite work in my limited experience.
Mastiff, huh. That would be pretty cool to see at the Nationals. Crazyness. . .
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#904 - 04/24/2002 04:29 PM |
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If your dog is young and inexperienced, he would benefit greatly from backing up a step. Instead of using the sleeve, buy yourself a Gappay 3-handled bitebar. These siimulate the bitebar area of the sleeve, but are much more mobile and somewhat softer for the young dog. The helper can move it rapidly for good prey stimulation, and it is easy to present correctly to ensure the dog gets a good grip the first time. The 3-handled design allows the helper to extend the tug away from his body after the bite, so the dog doesn't feel confrontational pressure from the helper, yet he can pull hard on it without losing his grip. It's a great stepping stone to the sleeve. Not saying your dog has this problem, but often when the dog gets elbow bites, it's because a) it is softer and easier to hold onto, or 2) he's wanting to avoid a more frontal position to the helper. Use the Gappay tug to transition him to the sleeve and avoid these problems.
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#905 - 04/25/2002 10:02 AM |
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Thanks for the replies.
VanCamp,
By Run-By I meant that while the dog is on the pole the helper runs horizontally into the arc area of the line. So if the pole was up against a fence, the helper would be running parallel to the fence. The helpers I am working with do a really nice job with sleeve presentation, none of the other young dogs in the group seem to have this problem.
SchIIIFH2:
I don't think it is an insecurity issue, since when the helper is either moving directly towards or directly away from my dog, he always hits the center of the sleeve, and he does take being driven and stick threats without a problem. Do you think there is a benefit to me picking up a three handled bite-bar and trying to make him miss to hopefully improve his targetting? I'd be a little leary of having one of the helpers do it, since he does get worked up on the protection field - and when we were doing rag work with him, he once grabbed the helpers pants when he missed the rag.
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#906 - 04/25/2002 10:29 AM |
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Oh. . .a run by. :rolleyes:
Is that what that is?
How are the helpers presenting the sleeve?
What do you think the problem is?
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#907 - 04/25/2002 11:10 AM |
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I'm not sure how well I can describe the sleeve presentation...from a quasi-natural arm movment while jogging the helper pops the sleeve up, so that the bite-bar is about a sternum level and the sleeve is almost perpendicular to his shoulders. This happens about 1/2 of a stride before the dog could reach the sleeve.
I'd like to believe that it is just a puppy clumsiness issue that will resolve itself. I love problems that correct themselves, but if this is something that is not going to get better on its own as the dog ages, I don't want to be instilling any bad habits.
Chad
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#908 - 04/25/2002 11:23 AM |
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If the pup is just slow off the ground, and so his timing is off and he's catching the elbow instead of the center, you might try having the helper agitate the dog on a quick-release or else you hold the dog. On his signal, he jumps back and you release the dog. Sometimes it helps them learn to strike quicker. But this is still an 8 mo. old PUP, so you've got to keep it prey and not get right in his face in defense. You definitely don't want the helper to just slow down his runby's and wait on the dog to strike, cuz he'll learn it's ok to be slow.
Overall, it sounds like you're rushing this guy. He's 8 mos. old, on a sleeve, being driven and threatened with a stick. That's a LOT for youngster. There's nothing wrong with simply giving him a break from bitework to allow him to grow and mature. Pups normally do hit plateaus where they simply can no longer improve due to their physical and emotional limitations. Your guy sounds like he's there. Put him up, give him a bite once every two weeks, and go back to regular work in two months. It'll kill you, but the dog will be better off for it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#909 - 04/25/2002 11:29 AM |
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Ok, just read your last post, so one more comment: I've always been taught that the helper needs to bring the sleeve up to the bite position at least 3 strides before reaching the pup, so the youngster can target it and gauge his jump. A half stride's not fair to the pup. It's much more important to be teaching an excellent gripping technique at this stage than it is to be teaching him to strike like a snake.
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#910 - 04/25/2002 03:33 PM |
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Damnit, SchH you are getting to be a real pain. How often do you check the board- every ten minutes!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
I had that one! There are so few of these that I can answer. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Targetting problem
[Re: Chad Stahl ]
#911 - 04/25/2002 03:39 PM |
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I'm SORRY!!! And yes, I do check the board every 10 minutes! Can you tell I'm bored at work??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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