I finally received my shake n bake towels, so I am starting the narcs training with my Malinois. I am starting with Marijuana and will go from there, strongest odor to weakest odor.....I don't have the cash right now to get Ed's video, though I would in a heart beat if I did have the money, so I am asking for any advice any of you may have as far as the how to end of it. I realize this board is not an appropriate place to get into the fine details of the training so if any of you would be willing, please private message me, and teach me or suggest to me what you are willing.

Any suggestions would be most helpful! I do not work for a government agency (yet), so I don't have the resources many of you have........I learn from the experiences and suggestions of others. Thanks.....

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I realize this board is not an appropriate place to get into the fine details of the training so if any of you would be willing, please private message me, and teach me or suggest to me what you are willing.

Speaking as someone interested in most facets of dog training I think that if it wouldn't be a violation of any rules/laws/ethics/etc. for someone to post narcotics training information here there are many people on this board who would be interested in the techniques used because they might apply to other behaviors they are trying to teach. If it would be a violation then taking it offline would probably be best.

Just my 2 cents <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think the comment was made more from an ethical standpoint and based off a comment made in an earlier discussion that I read earlier today. If the information on the fine details of the training can be shared on this board....works for me, if not I would appreciate the PM.

jeff, no offense taken. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Drug dog training is not smoke and mirrors nor is it some dark hidden secret. It's nothing more than basic operant conditioning. The difficulty comes in the subtlies of applying the operant conditioning properly. In otherwords, it's difficult, for me at least, to explain to someone what all is involved in training on a discussion board. Not from an ethical or moral standpoint, but from one of operational standpoint.

DFrost

Drew... The nice thing about dogs is that they can smell in layers... we walk into a pie shop and smell apple pie... they walk in and smell flour, butter, apples, nutmeg... etc. You can introduce your dog to all of your odors at the same time. It will greatly cut down your training time.

Drew, nothing really new under the sun. Like David said the priciples are the same. However, the application and techniques from one trainer to another can be very diverse. Such as aggressive vs passive rewarding with a towel, tennis ball or toy. Some folks get absolutely anal about contamination. Some put all the drugs together during imprinting and never wear gloves when handling the drugs. I'd be glad to share my experiences/preferences. There is a wealth of info out their it's simply finding a technique that clicks with you.

Due to serious budget shortages at my PD, I will be (trying) to narc train my dog myself. I have Ed's video but I want a passive indication and the video doesn't really cover that or using scent boxes or imprinting. Can anyone recommend videos or books on the subject. I am in central Indiana if anyone is in the area and could offer me some help.

Thanks,

Steve,

Before I start, of course we understand that all dog trainers always agree with each other and I'm sure this is the only way to do it. OK, so maybe that was a bit tongue in cheek, so I'll just say, this is the way I do it, and it's been very successful for me.

When training, each task should be broken down in to smaller tasks.We start with the easiest and train, in increments to the most difficult. Behaviorists use the term "successive approximation" to describe this procedure. Together these smaller tasks, when completed meet the objective or the end result you are going for. For the passive response: First we are going to teach the dog two things here, the search and an odor. We can do that a number of ways. placing the reward with the odor, and having the dog find the reward, or playing with a scented reward article. Either way will work. Personally, I don't use scented articles, but I know trainers that have success with them. I'll use ball for example. The assumption here is, the dog has the ball driver needed or he wouldn't be in training. First I merely start playing with the ball, having the dog retrieve it. Each time I throw it, I tell the dog to "find it" (I don't speak German). Besides I'm training mostly Troopers and well you know, oh never mind. I continue this "game" until (it's kind of guess work here) I see the dog is getting the grasp of this game. Next I take the ball, usually indoors and start placing it, while the dog is watching and tell the dog to find it. which of course he runs over and picks it up. Again, when I see he has that part of the game, I start placing marijuana with the ball. In the beginning the dog could care less about the marijuana, but a thing called transference starts to take place. Each time he finds his ball, he also smells marijuana. This in nothing but a game, and it continues with the ball becoming less and less visible. What I'm looking for in the dog ( yeah I know this is a bit subjective) but I'm looking for signs of recognition from the dog, that 1. he understands the "find it" ( demonstrated by an eagerness to look for the ball) 2. he's definately using his nose, cause the ball is by now out of sight) 3. At a certain point, (again, it's very subjective here) I'll remove the ball, and see if the dog is recognizing the odor it's self ( I haven't forgotten about the response but at this point it's not all that important.) When it's reached the point that the dog will search (keep in mind the search itself may only be a foot or too) and go to marijuana, without the ball being present, it's time to introduce the response. That's not all that hard, I tell the dog to sit, then immediately reward. There maybe some confusion at first, but just keep going. Ok I know this seems long and maybe even confusing. It's not all that hard, and just remember, we try to teach, one step at a time. Don't rush it. When the dog has learned one step, then move to the next. Not before.

Good luck I'm sure you'll get other suggestions.

DFrost

David,

Thanks for the lesson plan. Do you only do one narcotic at a time? I have the "find it" down pretty good I started that with food when he was a puppy and he will hunt very hard for the food or a ball now. Hopefully I will be starting soon so I can take my time.

Thanks again,