|
Fixing false alerts?
#8584 - 12/31/2004 07:08 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-12-2004
Posts: 2
Loc:
 Offline |
|
I am at my wits end with this dog, but also determined not to give up. I have a passive alert dog that falses often. He was a champ on boxes, but began falsing while moving to hides. He has no trouble finding his odors or alerting, but falses constantly. I have tried ignoring the response, leash/verbal corrections, bailing out and making the dog go past the false point, and ect. Nothing seems to work with this boy. Hides are blind, placed by me, so the handler has no way to cue the dog. He will also false on free search, though not as bad. He does fine on ground searches, and better on cars. I have read to place a reward with the hide and give as the primary reward. I usually discontinue this practice when they get good on searching. Up till now he has just been given the secondary reward. Might this work? What is the best way to train the false alert out of this dog? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Teddy
|
 Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8585 - 12/31/2004 10:24 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-23-2002
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nashville, TN
| Offline |
|
Sometimes false responses can be a matter of timing. fall back to a distance that the dog does not give a false response and work up from that distance. Even if you are only progressing a foot at a time. I'd completely ignore any response other than the response to the target. If the dog responds and there is no target, simply repeat the command to start searching just as if nothing had happened. Once the dog responds correctly, give the primary reinforcement. It may take some time, if the reward is strong enough to drive the behavior, it will work. Just remember, ignore any response other than a proper one. The dog will figure it out soon enough.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8586 - 01/01/2005 09:27 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-12-2004
Posts: 2
Loc:
| Offline |
|
David, thanks for the response. Just to make sure I am clear: I sould gauge the maximum distance the dog is able to search without falsing, then begin by placing hides within that distance. Then I increase the distance to search, even if only a foot at a time, until duration is established? Ball is placed with the hide and he is allowed to fetch it out. If this is correct, should I change training locations at every change in distance? Also, what is your opinion on when I can introduce blank rooms by this method?
|
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8587 - 01/01/2005 05:08 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-23-2002
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nashville, TN
| Offline |
|
Teddy, if the dog already knows the odor, but is false responding, then no I would not put the ball with the target. You are correct otherwise. There is nothing wrong with doing a blank room at anytime, however, with the problem of false resonding, I'd let the handler know the room is blank. If the dog responds, ignore it, repeat the command to search, just completely ignore the false responses just repeat the command. When the dog responds correctly, then of course throw the ball.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8588 - 01/01/2005 05:12 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 01-23-2002
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nashville, TN
| Offline |
|
Let me explain what I understood, after I read your post. The dog was having no problem with boxes. Hitting each target and not false responding. That is why I see it as a "time" factor. The dog is used to an easy search, and getting the ball relatively quickly once starting the search. I think slowly extending the search time, slowly extending the distance between targets, but ensuring the dog gets the ball each time he responds correctly will fix the problem. Some may not agree with ignoring the falses, but I think it's a solid training practice. It clearly shows the dog nothing changes until he responds correctly.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8589 - 01/01/2005 09:48 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-24-2003
Posts: 1555
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
| Offline |
|
David, As usual, two trainers look at a problem and how to fix it in different ways. Personally I would put the dog up as soon as he false alerts and scold him all the way back to the kennel or car. My thinking is that the dog will get no reward in the form of work or fun in playing ball if he alerts where there is no odor. In my experience it doesnt take too many times for the dog to be put away when he indicates falsely before he figures out what is not acceptable. Your thoughts please.
Howard
|
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8590 - 01/01/2005 09:50 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-24-2003
Posts: 1555
Loc: Melbourne, Florida
| Offline |
|
Of course, I would give the dog about 10 minutes then run the problem again. If he does well, then an extra large party should be thrown. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
|
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8591 - 01/02/2005 12:44 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 03-28-2004
Posts: 73
Loc:
| Offline |
|
Howard,
I don't know that I would take your route for a dog that is just learning detection work and transition from boxes to plants. In the beginning a lack of the reward and no acknowledgement from the handler for false repsonses is a safe course of action to try. I do think, though, that if this was a well trained dog that suddenly developed a false-sit problem without any other training explanation that I would go your route.
I agree with David. A common box problem lasts 20 maybe 30 seconds and the dog gets his reward. Even a small room could last a few minutes depending on the tightness of the search pattern and number of productive areas. The false responses are most likely time related.
It has become common practice, although not written doctrine yet, at the DoD to teach odor by plants instead of boxes primarily because of difficulties with transitioning from boxes to plants. They found that by teaching odor with plants that it decreased training total training time.
Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory lasts forever.
-Shane Falco
The Replacments |
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8592 - 01/02/2005 04:25 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 1052
Loc: New Mexico
| Offline |
|
OK, my two cents.
Typical problem with a handler based reward system.
Go to a primary reward system and start over, the problem goes away.
|
|
Top
|
|
Re: Fixing false alerts?
[Re: Teddy Parks ]
#8593 - 01/02/2005 05:24 PM |
Administrator
Reg: 07-11-2001
Posts: 2112
Loc:
| Offline |
|
I think people need to listen to what Kevin has to say here. Howard - while your answer may be well intended it is not good advise and should not be followed by other K9 handlers.
I am closing this thread - there have been other theards in the archives on this but the bottom line is you need primary finds and the problem goes away.
|
|
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
Page 1 of 1 1
Previous Topic
Index
Next Topic
.jpg)
