We may be getting our pup within the next month or so, and this is something that has been mulling around in my brain for a few days now. I hope I can make it clear for you all.

When bringing up a dog as a pet, I believe that you should be viewed and respected as the alpha by the dog. Even Ed believes this for his house and sport dogs. But someone casually mentioned that for a personal protection dog, I might not want the dog to view me as alpha because then he would expect me to take care of any situation that might arise, rather than taking care of it himself. Now, that sort of makes sense to me, and it sort of doesn't. I mean, I'll be training the dog to respond and how to respond in certain situations, so it's not like he'll just be reacting of his own free will, so to speak. I was wondering what you all thought.

Kristen, Congraulations on your knew pup and also for being open minded enough to ask questions. You without a doubt have to be the alpha with your pup because the first few months of training lays the foundation for this pups whole life. The alpha in the pack order has all the respect of all other members in the pack and without this alpha position in your home you are asking for all kinds of future problems includeing you being dominated by your own dog.

Well see, that is what I was thinking, but then this person put this other notion in my head and it almost sort of made sense. I'm interested to see what the more experienced guys have to say, but I'm sure they will agree with you.

I think that not being in an Alpha position over a ppd could lead to severe problems with control, and might ultimately put you and your family in real danger .

If you are not the boss... you are not in control.

A PP dog without control is a liability.

If you are not in control and not the "alpha" (I HATE that term with a passion!)and if the dog is worth anything, he will walk all over you.

This is a very interesting topic.

I have seen a few occasions where "PPD's" actually took a few bites (cheap shots) on the owners, during up close and personal protection scenarios...they were submissive dogs. Some friends and I discussed this and we think that these dogs, being opportunistic survivors, may have been "stacking their odds" in case their handler's aggressor won the fight. Not sufficiently frequent to be statistically significant, but it sure got me thinking, as this behavior is readily observed in pack carnivores.

The other end of the spectrum includes dogs that get out of control and don't acknowledge/respect their handlers body parts during high octane biting...both in protection scenarios and while playing.

There is a big difference between a dog knowing who's the boss, and being totally submissive.

For me, I want a dog that is very social, reliable, environmentally stable, VERY self confident, that trusts me, and that can tolerate a good and fair correction. I do not want a submissive dog. If I need to LEAN into a dog (MAKE him submissive), so I can "handle" him, I don't think that's a good dog.

So...1) EVERY SINGLE competitive challenge isuued by your dog should get a response from you, 1a) Teach your dog to respect you while he's a pup, in other words when and how hard you're willing to play, and the same for each in your family, 2) Know where your dog begins to shut off AND DON'T GO THERE, 3) Correct exactly as much as your dog needs (don't under correct), 4) With puppies (up to 18 mos. old in some cases), be SUPER patient ( the VAST majority of the biting, growling, etc. is PLAY, not dominance ), 5) Don't be tentative/hesitant with your dog. You'll make him wary of you, 6) Spend as much time as you can with your family...and incorporate the dogs, 7) NEVER get emotional with your dog...your voice should correct calmly and praise calmly, specially if the prongs or contact points are doing the yelling.

LOL Sorry Will, I didn't realise I posted right after you!

Yea.. what Will said!

I had typed a reply last night, and just as I was getting ready to click "Send" the stupid laptop locked completely up. I had to just shut it off with the power button, and I was so discouraged I just quit and went to sleep.

You all have pretty much backed up what I had thought from the beginning, but I have a tendency to over-think and over-analyze things and what this person said had actually started to make some sense to me the more I sat and thought about it, even though I still wasn’t sure that it was right.

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1) EVERY SINGLE competitive challenge issued by your dog should get a response from you, 1a) Teach your dog to respect you while he's a pup, in other words when and how hard you're willing to play, and the same for each in your family, 2) Know where your dog begins to shut off AND DON'T GO THERE, 3) Correct exactly as much as your dog needs (don't under correct), 4) With puppies (up to 18 mos. old in some cases), be SUPER patient ( the VAST majority of the biting, growling, etc. is PLAY, not dominance ), 5) Don't be tentative/hesitant with your dog. You'll make him wary of you, 6) Spend as much time as you can with your family...and incorporate the dogs, 7) NEVER get emotional with your dog...your voice should correct calmly and praise calmly, specially if the prongs or contact points are doing the yelling.

Andres, regarding #1, could you elaborate a little for me, please? Exactly what are you calling ‘competitive challenge?’ and what kind of response is appropriate for a working dog as opposed to a pet? I know that when my current dog was a pup, and she tried to show possessiveness over a chewie a couple of times, I immediately gave her a verbal correction and took the item away from her, then I would go back a little later and let her chew on it as I held onto it. Something tells me this wouldn’t be the right way to go about it with a puppy that is going to be trained in PP. Right? The rest of the stuff you mentioned is pretty cut and dry, and how I raised my current dog and how I treated my fosters as well. I’m a strong believer in the “Nothing in Life is Free” ‘regimen.’ I just wondered how far I should go with it with this new pup.


Also, one more thing in regards to my current dog; she’s a dominant female, and though she does like to play with other dogs and puppies, she is still pretty intimidating. She even postures towards puppies, and then when she tries to play, it scares them because they don’t know what her intentions are. She’s a very physical dog when it comes to playing with other dogs, and is vocal in the form of growling while she plays – she rarely barks. I plan on keeping the puppy crated when I am not home, and also at night until he’s fully housebroken. Should I allow both the dogs to interact under supervision and just correct my current dog for any dominant behaviors, or should I not allow them to play and interact until the puppy is older and/or bigger than she is?

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1) EVERY SINGLE competitive challenge issued by your dog should get a response from you

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Exactly what are you calling ‘competitive challenge?’ and what kind of response is appropriate for a working dog as opposed to a pet?

A competitive challenge is: a) any kind of resource guarding behavior: food, toys, location, b) hard play with kids, ie using the mouth hard and insistently, c) some instances of "keep away", d) stiff ( etc.) behavior towards you and your family, e) "jealousy", f) aggressive displays towards others while with you and yours. I think these are a few of the important ones.

With a Protection prospect you don't want to inhibit the bite, the natural aggression, the fight, nor the retrieve as much as with a pet. This results in having to make exchanges and attempts at deviating attention, in order to not make your dog excessively submissive. With a pet it's easier, because you can just correct the dog directly.

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Should I allow both the dogs to interact under supervision and just correct my current dog for any dominant behaviors

In my view the generic answer is no, but I think you should certainly teach your dog to interact with dogs. Choose peers, and VERY reliable adults, to teach your dog "dog manners".

The not so generic answer is, your bitch is possibly "posturing" to teach the youngsters limits. Have them interact, be careful, don't have them together when resource guarding issues are more likely to come up.

One good bite in the wrong place is all it takes to handicap a pup for life.

Andres, thanks so much for your informative posts.

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A competitive challenge is: a) any kind of resource guarding behavior: food, toys, location, b) hard play with kids, ie using the mouth hard and insistently, c) some instances of "keep away", d) stiff ( etc.) behavior towards you and your family, e) "jealousy", f) aggressive displays towards others while with you and yours. I think these are a few of the important ones.

With a Protection prospect you don't want to inhibit the bite, the natural aggression, the fight, nor the retrieve as much as with a pet. This results in having to make exchanges and attempts at deviating attention…

Ok, so rather than just outright correcting him for possessive behaviors with toys, food, etc. I should offer him something else to replace whatever it is he’s guarding, correct?

What would be appropriate for the hard play and mouthiness? Just removing him from the situation entirely, like a ‘time out’?

For “keep away” and “jealousy” I would just ignore him. Is that right?

How would I correct him for showing aggressiveness towards other people unnecessarily, without hindering his training? Do I allow him to bark at the door when family approaches it? What about while on walks? I know this is probably months down the road, but just some general input would be greatly appreciated.


My biggest thing is that I’m not sure how much ‘pet training’ to carry over for him, and what all I should be doing differently. Wayne said that for now, I should just pretty much let him be a wild child, and not try to focus on obedience or corrections or anything with him (THAT’s going to be fun! LoL). He also said that as for my other dog, to take them for walks together, but definitely not allow anyone to dominate the other, so off-leash interactions between the two are not going to happen for a while. I guess I’ll have to start taking my current dog back to the dog park to work with her some more with the dogs there. She doesn’t show aggression anymore, but she will still posture and fluff up sometimes, so I’ll have to work more on correcting that before I’ll trust her with this pup. She tends to stick to a strict heel when we walk, though. Is that going to be a problem you think?

Oh, right now, he’s 14 or 15 weeks old, so he’ll be somewhere between 16 and 18 weeks old when I get him.