Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and I just wanted some general advice about purchasing and training a GSD puppy. I am currently stationed in Baghdad, Iraq and will not be buying a puppy until spring of 2006. I am just doing as much research as I can so I don't make any stupid mistakes.

I have come to the conclusion that I want a male, working GSD from Czech or DDR bloodlines. I have owned many dogs in my life to include 2 Golden Retrievers and 1 Boxer. This will be my first GSD. I want to use the GSD for bird hunting as well as a good companion dog. I know most hunting dogs are pointers or retrievers, but I want a GSD for its intelligence, loyalty, and versatility. I want a male dog because it never fails that hunting season will happen to correspond with one of the “female seasons.” Male dogs also seem fit my personality better. I am going back to college when I get home so hunting will be a weekend activity. During the week will be reserved for obedience training and socialization. I want a dog with strong drive and stable temperament that will be a good hunting dog as well as a good companion.

I don’t want anything to do with the show community as I think they have done more harm than good to the GSD breed. Also, I have no interest in breeding the dog, so it will be neutered as soon as he is old enough. Lord knows we don’t need anymore “accidental” dogs running around ending up in rescues.

I have a few questions that I’m sure ya’ll can answer. First, I can only afford to spend about 800-1000$ on a puppy, do you think I can find a good working GSD in that price range? I’m looking at Von Zoller kennels and Eurosport K9 but I don’t know if their dogs fit my budget. I E-Mailed them about two weeks ago, but they haven’t gotten back to me yet. Any other breeder recommendations would be great. I know about the "no advertising" rule on this forum, so please feel free to PM me. Second, I have hunting training videos and books that I used for the Golden Retrievers, but will the same training techniques work for a GSD? Finally, I am having trouble finding a good obedience trainer in central Texas. Any recommendations would be helpful.

Sorry it’s so long. I just figured ya’ll could help me best, if ya’ll knew my lifestyle and what the dog will be used for. Thank you.

Philip Wassel
philip.wassel@us.army.mil

Welcome to the board Philip!....Good to hear that your views on show dogs are on point. Sounds like you've done some homework.
There are definately pups out there that will fit your price range. Check your PM's.
Good luck and be safe.


Pat

 Quote:

I’m looking at Von Zoller kennels and Eurosport K9 but I don’t know if their dogs fit my budget. I E-Mailed them about two weeks ago, but they haven’t gotten back to me yet.

SCREW 'EM! If they can't find time to email you a response within two weeks, IMO they would be lousy people to purchase from. Breeders I have bought dogs from treated me like the potential customer I was. Before and after the sale. IMO lack of a timely response, could also, mean, lack of a timely response when it comes to other things that you may need or request of them once you purchased a dog. Also, maybe they felt, you didn't have enough money to even talk to them, if thats the case, and you do manage to throw a little more money into purchasing a puppy, then if it were me I wouldn't buy from them. Plenty of good breeders on the block to waste time with people who feel a potential customer is not important. Of course this all is just my opinion, but a lack of a response, or if they do decide to get back with you, a untimely response, is a direct reflection on their character as a breeder and everything that goes in it. It's the little things that tell you the most about people.

I started out working with hunting dogs (Labs mainly) . I now train and handle Police K9's (mainly GSD's). My next hunting dog will be out of lines bred for hunting .

I personally don't have the time and money to put into a long shot . Can you find a GSD that can hunt ? Sure , but your odds are better sticking with dogs bred for that work .

Remember , hunters are always looking to hunt behind good dogs . I have been invited on some great hunting trips more on the merits of my dog then on my hunting ability or personality .

If you gamble on a GSD and it turns out to be bad or marginal at hunting , if you are like most people I know you will stick with the GSD you have out of love for the dog . Other hunters will avoid you like the plague because those kinds of dogs ruin hunting trips . That will make for several long , unproductive and lonely hunting seasons .

My advise is stick with the better odds . Go with dogs bred for hunting . Most hunting dog breeds cost less to buy also .

Well Chris, let's not jump to conclusions. Taunya & Josef of Eurosport have up on their site that they've gone back over to Slovakia for a while and put up a contact email address on their site to reach them while over there. Then they attended some trials this past weekend, and put that update on the page as well. The Mraviks are good people, can and do get quite busy from time to time. Taunya is really good about putting her cellphone number up on the site when they won't be around to check email as well.

Perhaps the email got lost somewhere along the way when they were travelling over to Slovakia. Shoot them a new email. They are very good people to deal with, very honest, and try to be as accomodating as they can.

As for Zoeller, I don't know them, have never talked to them, so I can't say what's going on there.

Philip, you've got lots of time to do research. While I do recommend the Mraviks at Eurosport, you should not be looking at any one breeder right now. Learn as much as you can, talk to a few different breeders, try to locate a club/trainer for when you get back, etc. In other words, get all your ducks in a row, then commit to a breeder. Make a list of the type of dog you would like, be specific about drives, nerve, OB, tracking, etc and then make a list of your capabilities with the dog (be completely honest). When you contact breeders, tell them what's on your list...but keep in mind that all of your requirements may never be met or some might be unrealistic, so you have to have some flexibility. Don't forget to calibrate your BS meter either!

Good luck on your search. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Well Chris, let's not jump to conclusions. Taunya & Josef of Eurosport have up on their site that they've gone back over to Slovakia for a while and put up a contact email address on their site to reach them while over there. Then they attended some trials this past weekend, and put that update on the page as well.

Mike, you are correct. It was more of a personal perspective to him about dealing with breeders, I probably should have put in there that they may be taking care of important business and maybe away from home or something, but I figured (hopefully) anyone would understand if they called back finally and said, hey sorry so late, but we've been out of the country. It was more my thoughts on how I would deal with a breeder that I felt was blowing me off (especially if he didn't know me)without any reason, other than just lazyness or because he didnt' feel I had enough money, atleast say so and maybe the buyer will try and come up with more money. Obviously your enlightment shows this is more than likely NOT the case. Good looking out.

Philip wrote:
" I have hunting training videos and books that I used for the Golden Retrievers, but will the same training techniques work for a GSD? "

Most of the training advise should work but here are some of the differences I have seen between hunting dogs and GSD's.

#1 Most hunting breeds I have seen have a better natural tolerance to gunfire then the GSD's I've seen .

#2 More GSD's that I've seen usually appear to be distracted by rabbits , deer , skunks , etc. then the hunting breeds I've seen . (if you are a rabbit hunter that's not so bad , if you're a bird hunter that's bad ). Go to Lou Castle's website and read his training advise on crittering if you end up having that problem .

#3 I haven't seen a GSD retrieve a bird but I have seen other non-hunting breeds retrieve them and many have problems holding them in there mouths(feathers bug them) .

#4 The more protective nature of the GSD could be a problem when encountering other hunters suddenly in the fields or woods . Your dog will be off-leash most of the time .

#5 Most of the hunting breeds I've seen tolerate the heat a little better then GSD's(not much though). Hunting dogs dieing of heat stroke is an all too common occurance .

#6 The GSD's I've seen retrieve just as well but they are usually more possessive of the item and have a harder mouth .

#7 I have seen many young untrained bird hunting dogs naturally get into pheasant and grouse scent and begin working it . I have never seen a GSD do this . I've seen GSD's naturally work rabbit and deer scent (anything with fur)but they don't show much interest in naturally hunting anything with feathers .

I think Jim is giving excellent advice here from someone with experience on both sides of the fence.

While I'm always glad to hear of someone wanting a working GSD, it should be for the traits that a working GSD has - and many of your needs would be better served by a hunting type dog.
And you can get a good dog in your price range with no problem!

And are you sure you're not going to reup? The retirement check is nice... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree that everyone advice about getting the right breed for a hunting dog is correct but if you are dedicate to training you shouldn't have a problem get a decent hunting dog out of a GS as long as the dog has the drive and temperament.
My Mal is doing Schutzhund and doing just fine right now as far as I can see, I also train him to retrieve birds and ducks, since I have no experience with hunting training, I apply Schutzhund training into retrieving, because I don't know how to train him to look up into the sky and watch for birds falling, I just use the Schutzhund training and do a "send out" and send him straight to where the birds fall, when he gets near it I gave the command "search", this is the comand I use for tracking and immediatly put his nose on the ground and when he found the bird and then use "fetch" and make him come into front position without chewing the bird and then release and finish just like you would send him out for the dumbbell, for my dog it is obedience work and I reward him with the ball, he is doing just as well as my friend $2000.00 trained lab., the only difference I see is that the lab work is natural and my dog work is obedience, but my dog is 10 times better in obedience as far as not braking the down or not coming back straight..., I did have problem with him getting spook from the 12 gauge shotgun firing off 3 feet from him but as with anything, slow and patience desensitize is the key. The way I look at it is that if I have a working dog, might as well put him to work instead of just doing sport all the time, I want a " dual purpose" dog. (-:
I'm in North Texas when you are back if you are up this way someday maybe we could do a hunt with our dogs (-:
Thank you for your service and stay safe.