I am looking for stud dogs to consider breeding too. I am looking for a stud with extreme drives like Will's dog Fetz.

Does anyone know where one is that the owner will allow him to be bred to outside bitches?

Is that your only prerequisite? Extreme drives?

Perhaps you may want to be more specific on the female, her lineage and what you are looking to accomplish.

That may get you a little bit closer to the male desired

Make sure that you see this male work. I have seen some people's "extreme" dog and wondered what they were looking at. Another was "extreme" defense and was very near to avoidance. I would take someone with you who can give you their opinion as well. A lot of people have way to high an opinion of their dog.

I'm with Jeff there - the *very* best way is to see the dog in question actually work! And if you can take your own helper for working the dog that you're interested in, so much the better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And remember, there's always a trade off for the real high drives, and it's usually all around livabilty ( like being a good house pet, etc. Most high drive dogs aren't great at this... )

What exactly do people mean by livability problems with high/extreme-drive dogs? What do these dogs do?

Mike asked ,
" What exactly do people mean by livability problems with high/extreme-drive dogs? What do these dogs do? "

These type of dogs are constantly trying to satisfy there drives . If they are unable to they will redirect there energy to something else like persistant barking , whining , pacing , destroying things , etc.

They usually don't make good pets because they need to be worked alot to satisfy themselves and burn off energy . Most people can't meet these type of dogs needs and the dog will find something else to attempt to meet those needs .

They may also be quick to react to things happening around them and need to be managed carefully .

Problems arise with these dogs when paired with someone who can't meet there needs or control them .

Ok, this is just what Fetz does, but I'll bet it's representative of many high drive dogs:

He never walks - he only runs. Everywhere. Unless he's on leash, he's in motion.

He stalks my cats. He never hurts them, but he looks like a Border Collie in crouch as he creeps up on them, it's kinda primeval. The cats that move slowly do ok and don't trigger his prey drive as much, but one female cat just despises him and then it's off to the races as he chases her. And yes, I've tried "crittering" with an E collar ( Dogtra 1200NCP on lvl 100 ), but he's a lvl nine in hardness and I nearly have to grind him into hamburger to make a strong correction, so I pick and choose those carefully.

He never sleeps. At least I've never caught him asleep. When I go to bed, he's staring at me. When I wake up, he's staring at me. He hardly ever even lays down. And this is with working him everyday *hard*.

I love him, he's an exceptional work dog and provides me with a level of safety that's unheard of for most ppd's. But it does require some fore-thought and extra responsibility ( and patience ) to own a dog with drives like this.

Wow, Will, you poor guy - sounds like my dog... but 100x worse hahaha. My dog does all those things, but usually not during the day until I take him out to work/play/potty, but for the most part in the afternoons when I'm not taking him out he's either sleeping or chewing on something quietly, then at night he's a rambunctious lil hellion. He doesnt let me sleep, I need to crate him before bed sometimes for 10-15 mins to keep him from destroying my bed sheets trying to get me to play with him and get him settled down. I'm sure he sleeps at night, but when I wake up he's staring at me - its kinda creepy lol. If I give him alotta exercise he's not as bad, he tires out for about 30 mins after a 1.5 mile run - then he drives me nuts again. Before bed at night I have to run around with him in the yard to try and burn off some energy - if I dont run, he just stares at me n starts barking at me - if I ignore him he'll just walk around sniffing the grass slowly, but he requires interaction before he'll start running around going nuts - once he's going, I just have to make a lil movement to get him to run laps around the yard - but if I don't do anything, he just walks around.

I think a dog that behaves that way 24/7 is probably too much for me - as I am typing this, he's sleeping at my feet, but as soon as I get up he'll run to the front door, so I'm avoiding getting up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Whereas if it was about 3pm right now, he'd just walk to the top of the staircase n lay down there till I come back upstairs - he's so predictable, can always figure out his behavior based on time of day.

I'll post the annoyances that my bitch Emma provides as well. (Fetz's litter sister)

She paces while in the house constantly. She does not sit or lay down while in the house or her yard, unless forced to. The only time she will sit quietly is when in her crate.

She probably sleeps about 4 hours a day, although I'll be damned to catch her doing it. All the rest of the day is spent in motion.

She is a horrible fence fighter and it's incredible how much stim she will put up with to be able to run her fence trying to kill other dogs.

If a day goes buy without her being worked hard core for at least an hour a day, she will fall into a number of nasty behaviors. Thrashing my other dogs, tearing apart her kennel fencing, eating her metal water bowls, trying to scratch through the concrete pad in her kennel, non-stop barking, literally bouncing off the walls in her kennel. . .etc.

I also need to work her almost daily in obedience, otherwise rank issues begin to crop up within a day or two.



On the other hand her ball drive is crazy, her food drive is crazy, and she has proven herself to be a pretty nice protection dog.

If we do some serious bitework three times a week, if I run her straight for an hour every morning, and if we swim in the cold pond a few times a week, she is manageable.


Socially, she is not a dog who can interact with strangers. She is not a social dog, does not like affection from visitors, and has a hair trigger for action.

Very reactive dog. That's a whole other part of owning her that is a pain sometimes. If you aren't aware of your situation at all times, if you aren't able to control your environment, if you aren't able to read her in different situations, she will get you into serious trouble.


I wouldn't trade her for anything. LOL

I still havn't caught "Erika" Sleeping. I guess she sleeps, it might be that time of night when the thrashing in the crate stops <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />