http://slate.msn.com/id/2127419/?GT1=7125

Your thoughts on this?

I don't think dogs can think the way we think, the first thing I thought reading that article was "the poor dog's bored so he's exploring the house finding things to do, n a dogs favorite thing to do is digging in the trash and shredding things with his teeth".

I do however think a dog is capable of knowing that when you're not around, there's no consequences for his misbehavior. He may not know what he's doing wrong, but he knows he's doing something wrong and that you can't do a damn thing about it because you can't see him doing it. I compare it to a child who's mommy is occupied talking to her friend by the front door - the kid knows that if mommy doesn't see him stealing from the cookie jar, then mommy won't yell at him for doing it. My dog doesn't touch a thing when I'm in the room, but if I go have a shower, he knows where I am, he knows he can walk into the bathroom anytime he wants to be near me... but he doesn't do that - instead, suddenly all the things he knows he's not allowed to have become targets, I'll hear the knives n forks rattling over the plate n run back upstairs to catch him in the act and correct him for stealing food, or I'll walk into the room n see a sock laying somewhere it shouldn't be and a USB Thumb Drive in his mouth (I really don't know why he decided to take that, it's not exciting at all, just expensive lol).

Learning how a dog thinks is one of the most fascinating parts of having them in your house.

I was listening to a show the other day on Science Friday on individuals who had been in accidents which left them with absolutely no short term memory. It was interesting because the researchers could repeat the exact same experiment over and over since the subjects couldn't remember having done them before. The researchers would place two objects in front of them and ask them to pick out the correct one. Of course there was no logic as to which one was correct, but after a number of repetitions, the subjects began to pick out the correct object, even though they claimed to have no memory of doing the experiment before and couldn't give a reason as to why one was correct. It just was. But even after the subjects were getting 100% correct repeatedly, if the researchers put all of the objects on the table at once and asked them to pick out all the correct ones, they couldn't.

The scientists found that the subjects were actually using a different part of their brain when "remembering" the task - they weren't using the areas related to reasoning, but rather a part of the brain related to habit, and which is shared with most other mammals. They learned through repetition of a very specific task, and in the performance of the task, like a habit, they never used their conscious mind - they just did it without thinking.

So, relating this back to dogs, it's one thing to realize that a dog doesn't reason like we do, but quite another to suppose that maybe they don't think at all - at least not when following a command learned through repetition. That when you say 'sit', he just sits, not knowing why he's doing it, just that that's what you do.

Thats a sad depressing thing to think about in that way... I don't like thinking of my dog as a robot, I like to think he's making a conscious decision everytime he defies me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> But I see your point.

Well, if true then we can take heart that with a dog, not following a command is probably a bigger sign of reasoning than following one. (I think the same can be said for humans.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The defiance thing I have found over the years I have trained other people is a lack of understanding. I have people tell me their dog knows how to sit. I have them tell the dog to sit, but the dog is across the room. The best response I get is the dog crosses the room, and sits in front of the owner. If he truely understood sit, he would of just sat. Not turned, walked anything just sat down. I think that "defiance" is an anthropomorphism. The more you learn about dogs in general I find, the less cool they become. The thing that no one can take away is that they do not lie. Since people do, and for no good reason I have decided to hate them and like dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to relate an incident with my ferret that demonstrates the possibility that some animals may have a decent ability to think and reason. I'm not going to say "yes they can!" or "no they cannot!" but anyway.. in my old bedroom, I had a bed against the wall, some bookshelves behind it, a nightstand between the head of the bed and the shelves, and a smaller stand for my laptop next to the head of the bed so I could compute in bed (me = geek). One day my ferret had been trying desperately to get up on this small laptop stand but it was just out of her reach. She stood back and looked at it, and then looked right at the bookshelves and it was like a light bulb went off in her head. She dashed over, climbed on the books in the shelf which then put her on the same level as the nightstand, climbed up onto that, walked over to my bed, and then walked right on the laptop stand. I did not train her that, I did not see her do that ever. I thought that was pretty interesting and advanced. Without any further research and testing it does make for an interesting case.

I have a feeling animals can think more than what we give them credit for; they almost have to in order to survive in the wild with all that happens.

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I have a feeling animals can think more than what we give them credit for; they almost have to in order to survive in the wild with all that happens.

Even if it's not true, I prefer to think it is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If I ask my dog a question, he cocks his head sideways like he's trying to understand... if I tell him to go to his crate he'll run over to his food bowl n eat the rest of his food because he knows that he won't get crated if he's eating (he's a picky eater, I'd rather him not listen and eat than listen n not get enough food). If we are outside and I tell him "huis!" 99% of the time he'll run to the front door.... but if he needs to poop, he knows he needs to do that before he goes inside so he'll run to his poop spot (used to scare me thinking he was gonna chase something he saw or run to another dog) n quickly poop before going inside... I've known plenty of dogs who would go inside, then stand by the front door waiting to be let out again because it didn't occur to them to take initiative (if thats what u wanna call it).

Bottom line - I think dogs brains work in a very simplistic way, but I think we sometimes over-simplify things - like a book someone told me about that basically rationalizes dog behaviors... "he snuggles up to you because he's cold... he licks your hand because he likes the salty taste" etc - well my dog won't lick someones hand that he doesn't like, so maybe it tastes good but at the same time its affection... a small child might curl up with his mommy for warmth - but would he do it to a random stranger? I think there's more to it, but we will never know unless dogs learn to speak english or communicate with us somehow, n well... tugging at bed sheets could mean a million things with my dog, so he needs to work at that communication skill <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I asked my dog if he could think. He just ignored me and kept on typing.

That's a winner... a coffee out the nose laugh for that post.

Thanks.