 De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
#88090 - 10/29/2005 09:04 AM |
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A friend of mine at the club has this great Czech GSD an in the course of the dog’s training it was flanked repeatedly to get it off the sleeve and on the decoy. Now if you happen to brush by the dog while in a group as in a Bh you risk an arm full of teeth. My question is: Can you make a dog less civil and at least to the point it will ignore casual bumping as in a group or crowd and to take the question one step further, can you take a civil dog I.E. Prison guard dog, area patrol dog and calm it down enough for the general public? I’m fairly new to Sch and PPD sports.
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 Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Dennis Jones ]
#88091 - 10/29/2005 09:21 AM |
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Dennis,
I had this long post all written about taking steps to work with the dog but I included terms like "but the dog will likely never be 100% reliable" so often that I erased it all when I came to my senses.
Around the "general public" you'll never get the reliablity needed to truely feel safe and relaxed about the possibility that the dog might revert to it's old behavior pattern. It's not worth the risk around the general public. Dog savvy people that are informed about the dog's behavior would be ok to be around, but why place the general public at risk?
Find a job for the dog to do that doesn't put the public at risk - a win-win situation.
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#88092 - 10/29/2005 09:56 AM |
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Thanks Will, with that info I've pretty much determine to let the helper/trainer/decoy know for sure that my dog does not get flanked or popped. If she doesn't want to play tug the sleeve then it's off to doggy dance class and I'll try again with another pup. I do wonder about what happens to K9 washouts, IE K9 won't go under a car, or freaks at shiney floors etc
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Dennis Jones ]
#88093 - 10/29/2005 01:51 PM |
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From what you are saying I am not sure that a good straight answer can be given over the internet.
I would have to do a satke out test, a bit of bite work, see the dogs reactions in the group, and have some time to truly diagnose the problema nd determine if the problem is repairable, manageable, or irrepairable.
The internet lacks everything necessary to help here.
A friend of mine at the club has this great Czech GSD an in the course of the dog’s training it was flanked repeatedly to get it off the sleeve and on the decoy. Now if you happen to brush by the dog while in a group as in a Bh you risk an arm full of teeth. My question is: Can you make a dog less civil and at least to the point it will ignore casual bumping as in a group or crowd and to take the question one step further, can you take a civil dog I.E. Prison guard dog, area patrol dog and calm it down enough for the general public? I’m fairly new to Sch and PPD sports. |
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Dennis Jones ]
#88094 - 10/29/2005 11:28 PM |
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I've pretty much determine to let the helper/trainer/decoy know for sure that my dog does not get flanked or popped.
Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm curious- is there a real benefit to using flanking as a training tool? I have seen this technique attempted a few times but I'm a bit confused as to just what is supposed to be achieved- besides REALLY ticking the dog off.
Vincere vel mori! |
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Corey Beale ]
#88095 - 10/30/2005 01:48 AM |
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It is for lazy trainers that want quick outs without going thru the steps to do it right. Cheaters.
I am smarter than my dog, your just not. |
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Corey Beale ]
#88096 - 10/30/2005 08:09 AM |
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Please forgive my ignorance, but I'm curious- is there a real benefit to using flanking as a training tool? I have seen this technique attempted a few times but I'm a bit confused as to just what is supposed to be achieved- besides REALLY ticking the dog off.
No, there is not.
Happy and SAFE Training,
Scott |
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: ScottWhigham ]
#88097 - 10/30/2005 08:33 AM |
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I agree, I never flank my dogs. I have seen dogs that were flanked to teach the out or even get non-outing dogs to out, and the problem of the dog outing if touched near his back end happend. You could get the dog off the bite by simply raking your hand near his back end. This dog also, had not been flanked alot I believe like 3-4 times and that problem developed. And this is just one example I'm referring to. Maybe it wasn't done right or something but I certainly am not comfortable with it.
COL Nathan R. Jessup for President |
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Chris Duhon ]
#88098 - 10/30/2005 06:10 PM |
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To simply condemn flanking in training as wrong is a poor way to decide on training a dog has received or will.
At the same time if the flanking is boardering on cruelty then it shouldn't occur.
But, I've use a little pinch on my dogs to get
em to spit the sleeve and I've used it in muzzle work while rolling around on the ground, and on a few really powerful big prey dogs who just enjoyed the physical confrontation (much like a good lineman does).
But, it does take an educated and experienced dog trainer to make these decisions and implement them properly.
To tell me that a dog is now weird about being touched after just a few experiences makes me think that either the events were truly dramatic and verging on cruel placing the dog in crisis or that the problem was there to begin with due training and/or temperment and the choice may have been wrong to implement flanking and thinking you're getting somewhere with it.
I agree, I never flank my dogs. I have seen dogs that were flanked to teach the out or even get non-outing dogs to out, and the problem of the dog outing if touched near his back end happend. You could get the dog off the bite by simply raking your hand near his back end. This dog also, had not been flanked alot I believe like 3-4 times and that problem developed. And this is just one example I'm referring to. Maybe it wasn't done right or something but I certainly am not comfortable with it. |
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Re: De-mil-ing a Civil GSD
[Re: Kevin Sheldahl ]
#88099 - 10/30/2005 06:31 PM |
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Our club has a new training director and helper, they probably have a different approach to training. They really like E collars. This is a young dog and I was just wondering if you can fix a training mistake like that.
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