Hello

From most of the posts I have read it seems as though if we wanted a REAL protection dog or a REAL house guardian the best chance we would have on finding it seems to be either a GSD or a MAL. From what I understand it can be found in many other breeds but its not common in them and most of them are not the real thing with true "fight" drive.

My question is are there any breeds of livestock guardian breeds that have the true fight drive and won't back down from a threat like some gsd's and mal's do?

Just curious what are farmers or other people who have NEED for these dogs buying??? Just fake dogs that bluff the predators away but run away when a predator or a man presses its attack? Are there any livestock guardian breeds out there that can really do what their breed description says? IF so would you choose them over a gsd or a mal if you had livestock or other animals that would need the dogs protection without actually getting eaten by the dog?

The malinois, GSD, Rottweiler, a few other breeds are known as protection dogs for good reason. They possess the greatest number of individuals capable of the work.
For a very knowledgeable view about the herd guarding breeds it is important to look at the book
DOGS A Startling New Ynderstanding of Canine Origin, Behavior & Evolution, by Ray and Lorna Coppinger.
The perspective that the herd guarding breeds are good protection dogs for home, police, sport, is quite well unfounded.
I for one had many years experience with Pyrenees, big stable dogs that have no business doing protection work.
I have tested a number of other types and few have much to offer for the enthusiast of protection training, the professional law enforcement officer, or the protection sport enthusiast.
Oh, I'm sure someone can point out an exception and I certainly have seen more than one that would bite but they are not what is seen generally.

 Quote:

Hello

From most of the posts I have read it seems as though if we wanted a REAL protection dog or a REAL house guardian the best chance we would have on finding it seems to be either a GSD or a MAL. From what I understand it can be found in many other breeds but its not common in them and most of them are not the real thing with true "fight" drive.

My question is are there any breeds of livestock guardian breeds that have the true fight drive and won't back down from a threat like some gsd's and mal's do?

Just curious what are farmers or other people who have NEED for these dogs buying??? Just fake dogs that bluff the predators away but run away when a predator or a man presses its attack? Are there any livestock guardian breeds out there that can really do what their breed description says? IF so would you choose them over a gsd or a mal if you had livestock or other animals that would need the dogs protection without actually getting eaten by the dog?

For livestock breeding the Anitolian is the breed to be looked at. There is a guy in the midwest that sells sheep and Anitolian dogs together as a package deal. He guarantees them (that you won't loose a sheep with the dogs around, kind of interesting guy). But they're the best that I know that will actively protect the herd.

I saw an Anitolian Shepherd Dog at the UC Davis vet school last year. The dog was pretty dirty and rough looking. He also only had three legs. This peaked my interest as he (and his handler) looked like they spent a good deal of time in the field.

So I asked her about the dog. Apparently, she owns a large ranch with a lot of sheep/livestock. She uses ASD's to protect the flock/herds from coyotes, mountain lions, etc. The dogs live in the field with the flock/herd 24/7.

This particular dog was mid-aged and had lost the one leg to some type of accident. Still, the dog wanted nothing more than to continue working. She tried to retire him, but she'd find him out in the fields anyway (after bringing him inside or putting him in the barn.) The dog just plain loved to work. Impressed the hell out of me. They were at the vet for a follow-up check up and the dog was so dirty because he had been working all day.

I suppose they are just like any other breed, with some making the grade and some not. But given the right dog(s), I wouldn't hesitate to put them in the field.

In short, what did Coppinger write in his book about LGDs and their shortcomings for protectionwork? What I heard about some of this breeds are that they are not suited for sport/policework, but as guarddogs of a territory they are very good and natural talents for that type of work, provided you find a good representative of the breed. Ovcharkas are used in Russia I heard for guardwork, and even
PP-work, but such dogs are not a good choice for PP with the laws in most civlized countries, and certainly no dog that should be owned just for company or without proper understanding of the breeds temperament, and knowledge of dogs in general I guess. Hate to see these ancient dogs destroyed by showbreeders, who promotes them as petdogs with
PP-ability.

A friend of mine keeps sheep on a small farm in the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia. She has four Tibetan mastiffs and is very happy with them as livestock guardians. We've never discussed their duties and performance in detail, but she hasn't lost any sheep to predators lately.

hey whats;up ya'll are missing two of the best breeds one is a black russian terrier I dont think theres one better he is 100% protector and man stoper but thay have to be family pets, no kennel or outside dog, thay have to live with you. the outher is a giant schnauzer there great house pets ,non sheding very playful and loving but verrrry! protective and serious about there bounderies

I recommend you read the book, its reasonably well-written and has very good anecdotes with some very good points. A short answer to your question will not be very good, but I'll give it a shot. Dogs with high drives do not make good flock guardians because they will constantly be stalking the sheep, or viewing them as prey items: Coppinger proposes that this is largely a motor pattern/ reflex. This type of behavior would inhibit them from being assimilated into the flock of sheep as a member. Dogs with lower drives will be able to socialize with the sheep much more easily. This is the case with most livestock guardian dogs, and this is why they are not normally very good for work because we use drives to get dogs to do work. If I remember correctly, I believe there are some older threads about this that are more detailed.

Quotene is a black russian terrier I dont think theres one better he is 100% protector and man stoper

The few I have seen were far from stopping anything, let alone a man. Just another fuzzy for the show freaks.

HMm its hard to tell if a dog is just a bluff or the real thing cause we never know until an attacker presses its attack. Wild animals usually will try and avoid a confrontation even if they are capable of killing whatever is calling them on. The reason fro this I think is they naturally have to be more cautious because any serious injury would lead to them not being able to hunt. But I have read many cases of leopards actually ignoring livestock and attacking and eating the livestock guardian dog instead!