Our 16month MalxGSD, Dolly, has been going to weekly obedience classes for 5 months.

At the start of the class the dogs run free together for a few mins and there is some 'establishing of the pecking order', but the trainer ensures there are no fights.

Dolly is one of the biggest & quickest dogs there and she usually 'plays', in a quite friendly way, with a Lab bitch of about her weight. If her friend is not there, she's a bit of a bully to some of the smaller dogs.

A visiting male Ridgeback scared the sh*t out of her although he was very friendly !

Approx since starting Ob Training she has become increasingly aggressive to other dogs while she is being walked and when off-lead will run to the far side of the large fenced field to hackle and bark at them, so she doesn't appear to be trying to protect me!

She is also barking more at joggers, cyclists and anyone who she doesn't like the look of!

I am just wondering whether the 'free for all' at training is in some way making her more aggressive?

She had been quite well socialised prior to this with people, kids, and other dogs, although she has always had 'doggy friends and enemies', especially when she's on-lead.

Thanks for any input.

That is the weirdest "obedience" class warm up that I've ever heard of. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Roger, i wouldn't let my dogs run free with strange dogs. What would you do if a fight broke out? But, i always think of worst case scenarios and try to avoid problems that are easily avoidable. The situation you described seems dangerous to me, you should ask the trainer how he/she would break up a fight, i'd like to hear the answer, because i'm sure that 2 of mine would be fighting with a pack of strange dogs, AL

Definatly weird. I wouldnt have the dogs "play" like that....it's just asking for trouble, especially at that age. It's like the dog park idea......VERY BAD. I would recommend not doing obedience in a class setting either. You would accomplish much more solo in a one on one. Then down the road have dogs nearby as a distracion after you have a solid foundation.

Pat

I'm with you guys, letting some 4 month old puppies explore in a pup class is one thing but after that the dogs should be expected to ignore each other. I do on the other hand believe in group classes, they let you learn form others mistakes and if they are well run can be good controled distraction. Let’s not forget that obedience classes really aren't about training the dog they are about teaching the people how to train their dog.

Very interesting replies which largely confirmed my concerns.

There have been no problems with fighting, presumably because they are mainly bitches and a couple of young dogs, none,apart from Dolly!, of the sort of dogs which most of you guys seem to have (big, tough GSDs , Mals, etc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

I will discuss with the trainer tomorrow, although he's not the most 'receptive' person I've met <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
And we'll opt-out of the 'free for all'.

I am considering a change of trainer, but this is not easy in this area, AND we've paid for a year up-front!!

We have found it beneficial to let Dolly run off-lead in the 'ring' before the others get there, as it tires her out a bit and makes her a bit more responsive to the training (which IS, of course, mainly for the owners!).

That does sound a little odd. Every Ob class I've had, we spent our time NOT letting our dogs interact, much less off leash. A lot of time was spent doing figure-eights with two handlers and their dogs acting as "posts", serpentine heeling patterns in and out of the other dogs, etc. The point being to get them to totally ignore other dogs and focus on their handler only.

 Quote:

Very interesting replies which largely confirmed my concerns.

There have been no problems with fighting, presumably because they are mainly bitches and a couple of young dogs, none,apart from Dolly!, of the sort of dogs which most of you guys seem to have (big, tough GSDs , Mals, etc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

Sounds like you have a big tough dog like us also if she is a Mal x GSD. I guess the comment I have is that we teach our dogs to pay attention to us because that is not only safer for everyone involved (human and canine alike) but it also allows the dog to do thier job with minimal distraction.
The "allow play time" first is a concern I have personally since I have seen dog fights that turn severely intense and the owners do not know how to break it up so much damage is done before Fido and Rex quit the behaviour.
I would be concerned for my dog due to the fact that vet bills are not getting any cheaper and eventually someone will try the, "your dog beat up my dog and you have to pay my vet bills too" game.
I agree that opting out of play time is a good idea and if your "instructor" has an issue with that then I do not see where he has your best interest in mind. I have learned that it is okay to say "Please do not do that" once and then either put my dog up or ask again in a much less polite way if I am in a position where my dog cannot put up.
Just my opinion.....
Carol Boche

If your trainer is not receptive to you opting out of the play time or has an issue with you bringing this to his attention I would ask for my money back. This is very unusual for dogs of this age to be allowed to run is a group like this. I've only seen this is very young puppy kindergarten classes.

If you can get your money back try for a private trainer (maybe he could do it if he is receptive).

Jamie

That's a laugh, Jamie, our 'instructor' has taken himself off to South Africa, leaving several of his clients 'out in the cold' as we'd paid up-front for a year's training <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

When I asked him what he proposed to do about the money he owed me, he just said "Send me a lawyer!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I told him, in front of the class, that he is a thief, but I did manage to recover all but about $100 by taking all the dog food he had in his car.
So it's not too painful for us, but one of his clients had paid-up for a year in September, when he must have known he was going!

I feel rather sad I am not the sort of person to "Send the Boys Around", but I do have friends and influential contacts in Johannesburg, where he's going, so he may find he receives an 'unexpected Welcome to S Africa' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So I am back to DIY dog training, using Ed's dvd as a guide <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks to everyone for their input.