Does anyone have any suggestions/experience with struggles for dominance between two dogs of VERY different size? My GSD and my chihuahua (go ahead and laugh, everyone) go at it constantly now that my shepherd is maturing. When he was a puppy, he just walked away from the chi when he was grumpy, and tried to play again later. Now, at almost 2, the GSD is losing tolerance rapidly, and I can't blame him. He's given several warnings, yet the chi only heeds them when I'm over 15 feet away; he knows Mommy will bail him out of trouble when he starts it and finds himself in someone's mouth. Yes, he's a spoiled brat. I already know this. The problem is that he's not quite 7 pounds, and the shepherd is about 97 pounds. I can't just let him get killed, even if he deserves it. I had him neutered, and he's calming down a bit, but he still stares at him with his hackles up all the time. He never misses an opportunity to snap at the shepherd. It's taken this long for the shepherd to get fed-up, so what concerns me is the day sometime in the future when he just doesn't care about trying not to kill him because he's PISSED. Please don't suggest I get rid of either of them-not going to happen. It has something to do with jealousy, because they only do this when I'm watching or very close by. I watch them outside together, and they're fine. What does it mean when they only fight when I'm in the mix? What does this mean about the temperament of my shepherd? He's beginning to instigate. For example, he'll "accidentally" knock the chihuahua off the bed with his tail, or "accidentally" whack him with a large bone, or "accidentally" sit on him (after he's felt around with his paw to see exactly where, under the covers, that little pest is). However, when he's doing the instigating, he's not really mad. The chihuahua is hopping mad, though. Fights never break out over these antics, for some reason. This is almost like a game in which only one of them is having fun. When he gets snapped at for being a bully, he just wags his tail and walks away, like "My work here is done..." What, if any, ideas does anyone have regarding causes and what to do now? I'm almost more interested in any input that would help me determine what kind of dog my shepherd is-hard,soft,sharp,help,help,help!

It's time for 2 dog crates and a serious dose of dog training -http://leerburg.com/302.htm - there is not going to be a dog fight - there is going to be a dead dog unless you step to the line. Read what I have written on dimijnanat dogs in my training articles.

This comes under the catagory of a handler problem not a dog problem.For the small dogs sake I hope you change the way you live with these dogs.

Obviously it's a handler problem. I said that when I made sure to mention that it only happens when I'm right there. I have crates. I separate them when I'm not home, just in case, and often when I am. I understand that the small one could get killed. That was the reason for the post. I just want to know the proper way to treat this situation because I feel it's unfair to constantly be punishing the shepherd for reacting to what any living being would have a problem with. Does it matter who starts it in this case? Should the emphasis be on the tiny jackass or the big one? Please don't anyone think that the chihuahua gets away with murder just because he's small. But come, on, I can't just let them "work it out" like I've seen in other posts/replies. I think we all know how that would end up. FYI-I never planned on these two dogs living together. Circumstances changed, and it happened. I know what my chihuahua is-a very sweet, smart, dominant little Napoleon who truly thinks he runs the show and has absolutely no fear. He has the common sense not to mess with the shepherd unless I'm there to save him. So maybe he's just evil. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Whatever the case, they live together now and are going to have to continue to live together, so I need to address this and fix it. Ed, I did read your dominant/aggressive dog articles, I think. My shepherd is not really aggressive unless he's MAJORLY pushed, and only with this one dog. Can I use an ecollar on a chihuahua, or any of the other techniques mentioned without doing harm? I know I have to correct them both when they get in their squabbles, but it's easier said than done to get the timing correct, and I know that's the key. I live alone, and my shepherd is about my size. When they're fighting, I don't have any choice but to "take sides" with the chihuahua and save his jerky little ass, but I always end up feeling like his punishment comes too late to do any good, and the shepherd gets picked on for just defending himself. Maybe I'm reading too much into their "feelings". I know you'll all let me know if you think I am. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ed, Just reread your post and your dominant/aggressive articles, and was wondering if in this situation, you would go with your original "shaking" correction, or the less physical approaches you wrote in your "theory of correction" article. Just a little confused about which way to go here, since "theory of correction" mentions some mistakes you'd felt you made. Please clarify-obviously, I don't know what I'm doing, and don't want to do the wrong thing in this situation. Thanks!

If I may interject here, it sounds as if the dye is cast in this situation.. How old is the chihuahua..? if he is an adult dog, (correct me if I am wrong here, Ed) the behaviours are set and he MAY not respond at all to corrections..

The thing is if I read this correctly you have 2 males.. right away there is a problem with territorial aggression, and yes, I believe that your chi sees you as "his territory"..

My old shepherd Beja was a dominant prick, and I can take a good bit of the blame as a first time GSD owner with a dog that was WAY too much for a newbie.. He was fine with people in that he could be around them and even be put in a down at their feet as in a BH routine.. just don't try to pet him, and don't stare him in the face for too long.

anyway, one day he got out of his kennel and ran over to the neighbors house.. he was over there for a full 5-10 minutes with the neighbor never made a peep, UNTIL I went to get him and as soon as I took his collar and clipped the leash to it, he walked to the end of it and growled at the same neighbor he just licked in the face before i got there..

It was almost as if he keyed off my fear that he would bite or growl at someone and felt the uneasiness in me and responded by growling at what he percieved as a threat to me.. does that make sense..?

anyway, just my two cents..

just FYI, He was a son of Kalif vom Leerburg (Orfey x Farrah)out of a Steinig Tal female named Visa (Norbo x Dama)

Dave McDonnell

Dave, Thanks for the interjection. Just out of curiosity, which Norbo do you mean? Back on the topic, my chi (Widget) is 5. He is who he is. I used to foster dogs, and he never had a problem with them; he's not stupid, though, and can tell that I treat the GSD (Caleb) just like I treat him. Which is totally unfair, from his point of view. Caleb is the only dog he has ever shown any aggression toward-he's actually a rather unusual chi in that he likes everyone and every animal. Never so much as nipped at any other dog or a person, and from what I'm hearing about chihuahuas, that's pretty unusual. They have a rep for being a bit nasty. Which is why I was surprised that he reacted this way to Caleb. I thought he would get used to him or be less irritated by him when he outgrew his puppy antics, but he didn't. I really feel like it's a jealousy thing with me, and not so much a personal dislike of Caleb. For example: recently, I took Caleb to my mom's for dinner and left Widget at home. When we returned, he sniffed Caleb for several minutes, then took a present out of the litterbox and put it on my bed when I wasn't watching. I think that's a bit extreme. Pretty smart, but extreme. Based on Ed's articles on dominance, NEITHER of my dogs really fit the bill, except on this issue with each other. I might be taking that back very soon though; my shepherd is changing rapidly. He's also gotten aggressive with people who've stared at him directly for too long, especially on leash. I agree that they seem to feed off fear or hesitation-if you act like Caleb is no big deal at all and walk right by him, ignoring him, or just pet him without permission, he's fine. But if someone hesitates in the least, or pauses long enough to ask if they can pet him, he's all over it, and they end up wondering why in the hell they ever considered petting that dog. I fear these problems are going to get worse unless I stop them now, which is why I'm posting these questions. I don't want to overcorrect Caleb and screw him up or kill his drives; he really is a great, patient dog with the other animals (dog and cats) and only reacts when pushed to the EXTREME. The 3 times he's reacted, it was obvious that he was giving a warning. Let's face it, if he wanted Widget dead, there's not a whole lot anyone could do about it. I would welcome anyone's personal suggestions, whether or not they're conventional. I've asked "experts" and they tell me to keep them separated at all times or get rid of one. Well, duh. Of course that would solve it, but neither of them is going anywhere, and I feel it can be helped since they get along FINE when I'm watching, but they think I'm not. Clearly the problem has to do with ME, so what can I do about it? Just leave Widget in charge of the house and go live somewhere else myself? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I think he would probably think that was a fine idea... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

First, stop treating the dogs the same. Dogs live in a hierarchy not in a democracy where everyone is equal. You, of course must be the absolute pack Alpha but the dogs also have their pack order and it does not depend on size. Since the Chihuahua is a dominant dog, support his position by doing things such as feeding him first, petting him first, and correcting the GSD for challenging his pack superior. I would also put both dogs on a strict NILIF and obedience training program to teach them that you are the Alpha.

Hi Jenni, sounds to me like you have control of the gsd and don't have control over the little dog. If you insist on letting them interact, get control. I think alot of the problems people have with tiny dogs is because they don't treat them like dogs. You talk about pack behaviour, well, in packs the dogs play rough, a dog that small might get injured or killed by your gsd running over it to get the ball or some scenario like that. What have you done to try to fix the problem so far? Well good luck, AL

Thanks for the input, guys. I really don't think I treat the little one like a toy, like so many people do. He's always lived with large dogs, as I used to foster pit bulls, and he learned to steer clear when they're playing. Not that he doesn't ever get babied, but no more than the gsd. I understand that the chi is dominant and an alpha, but I don't think it's that I have control over the gsd so much as he just hasn't fully matured yet. This is what worries me. Months ago, he'd just walk away when dominated; now, he doesn't back down at all. What's odd is that when no other animals are around, my chi listens beautifully and is extremely obedient. I know there are several approaches to changing this behavior, but I hesitate to just go along with the chi as dominant over the gsd. The gsd until recently, was a bit uncertain and insecure. Long story, but I don't want to discourage him from coming into his own a bit. Not if it means killing another dog, but I don't want to immediately squash his confidence. I do different things with each dog-I take them places separately, walk them separately, etc. Is this right or wrong? My hope was that they would be less competitive with each other if they didn't have to compete for my attention. I don't think I treat them the SAME, but I don't think I have established a clear alpha among them. I am not letting either of them in my bedroom anymore. Not going to be easy, but I have to try. Also going to try to keep them off furniture. What does everyone think about remote trainers for dogs that small? He's stubborn-I know I'm going to need something extremely convincing to change the chi's behavior. Is it cruel? I don't want to use a dominant dog collar on him if I can avoid it because chis are prone to tracheal collapse, and I don't want to do any damage. Could the same "lift them off the ground" correction be effective if procured by a harness instead of a collar?

Hi Jenni

I can tell you from experience that you must separate these dogs or you will lose the little one.

Sounds like your GSD will be the dominant one even if he has to kill the other.

I have a dominant Gold Retr. & at the time a small German Shepherd pup. Spook ( the gold retr. )could not be trusted around him when he was small & it caused me a trip to the vet & almost killed the pup. Yet I thought I could control Spook & he got the pup again ( not to smart huh )

Asthe pup got bigger it wasn't as big of a problem as my pup was a little more durable & spook would not fight him that hard.

I suppose if we hadn't lost that pup at 13 mos the tables most likely would have changed & I would have been protecting him from the GSD. LOL

Good Luck