One of the facilities in my area has been looking for an assistant for their training classes. Someone that could eventually take over a few of the classes. I thought,"great, improve my dog handling skills and its part time so I can still go back to college." After talking with the owner, I agreed to sit in on a class and observe their training methods. This class was a real eye opener. These people believe that training involves only positive methods, no corrections whatsoever. According to them, giving a correction would break the dogs spirit. What a joke. Needless to say, I left the class realizing that some people will never learn. As the owner stated,"My clients are the type that carry their dogs around in gucci bags. And their is a big difference in training attack dogs and these peoples pets." Yea, she used those words. Attack Dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> So I went home and played in the snow with my two attack dogs. While one loves chasing snow flakes and anything that moves, the other tosses snow around with her muzzle. It is sad to think that my poor dogs have broken spirits. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Onw question:
What planet do these people live on? Training using postive methods is how I work. If the dog does something that needs correcting (unacceptable behavior) then I correct it. Unless the dog is a walking angel, some day, sometime, they will need to be corrected. The small dogs out there REALLY need attention to behaviour.
Julie

"small dogs out there REALLY need attention to behavior"
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />LOL-Don't I know it!!! (Peke and Chihuahua)

I'm frequently thought of as mean because I correct my small dogs in the same was as my GSD, with the exception that a physical correction is tailored to their size. I also don't carry them around in Gucci bags, which I guess is also mean; I actually make them walk on their own four legs when we go places. Poor babies. Call the ASPCA.

Anyway, on the whole postitive only training thing-I took Caleb (GSD) to an obedience class that had been recommended by a coworker. The first night of class, we show up with no treats and a prong collar. OOPS! (Go straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200) You should've seen the looks I got. The trainer actually made me put a flat collar on him and gave me a bag of treats. My dog is not particularly food motivated and will never eat in public, for some reason. Anyway, about halfway through the first exercise my dog was given his collar back <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. However, the trainer suggested that he wasn't being disobedient; he was terrified. Terrified? Of 4 show beagles who weren't allowed within 8 feet of him, or was it the maltese who was causing the fear? The problem, as I saw it, was that the owners wouldn't allow their precious babies anywhere near him, and even during break, he sat by himself. I personally think that if he'd been allowed on break to be introduced to any of them, he would've calmed down. Not that he should have to meet everyone to behave, but it wouldn't have hurt. He LOVES other dogs, especially small ones. But, they saw that prong and I heard some whispers among the show people that "that shepherd is NOT bred for show...such a shame..." etc, etc. On a heeling exercise, my dog got too close to the dog in front of him, (maybe because he's 11 times it's size and walks faster?) and Fifi was actually scooped up and cradled. Sorry for the rant, but with this positive only fad, it's easy to see why these little dogs are causing so many problems. Without any fear of a correction, regardless of how badly behaved they are, the worst that happens is they don't hear a click or get a treat. Hmmm, do exactly what I want, no consequences, and sacrifice a biscuit, or do exactly what I'm supposed to, have no fun, and get a click and a treat?

Yep...just shows that when you find a good training place you better hold on for dear life. Most of the places around me are all positive methods...don't think my stubborn working lines GSD gives a hoot about a clicker or anything of the sort. My club reccommends prongs...even though it is not a serious club in terms of training ppd's or schutzhund...the prong works great right along side lots of positive praise and a rare treat.

On another note, I love a well-trained littled dog! In my classes, there is a little papillion (sp?). He shows in obedience, rally, agility, & confirmation. He is one I would love to take home!

-Melissa

Papillon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You were close-very cool little dogs, usually.

My Boxer had a prong collar that I used for walks- as I don't require him to heel for that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, in training him for obedience, I just used a flat collar. I trained him to focus on me, and only me as we heeled. I didn't need a prong during training. Now, that isn't to say, that when he got excited (in between exercises) he didn't do the bucking bronco act, but he has never been a pulling dog. So, in certain instances, like attention for competition, using either a tug toy or food, you don't need a prong, imo. If on the other hand you are in a large class packed with all sorts of dogs, and you do group lessons for general obedience, maybe then. Prongs and chokes and their use need to be taught to the regular dog public- too many people have no clue how to use them.
Julie

Another thing that I thought was odd was they switch dogs during training. The theory is that your dog should listen to everyone, no matter what. I guess in a perfect world that would be acceptable, but I can't imagine someone outside of my pack trying to order my dogs around. It just wouldnt fly. But if anyone knows where I can get a gucci bag big enough for a 100 lb pup, let me know. I am sure he is feeling a like a social outcast compared to these guys.

That I don't go for. I don't ask of my dogs to listen to anyone else, unless they want to give them a treat and I ask them to tell the dog to sit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Other than that, they can blow them off all they want <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> People with that mindset are usually the type to get bitten by a dog who they thought they could be the boss of.
Julie

I dunno what you guys are talkin about, you shouldn't correct small dogs at all, n don't let em walk either.... cuz when I'm walkin thru a rough neighborhood, I KNOW nobody's stickin their hand in MY Gucci bag!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Gee whiz, I guess all the dogs, small medium and large, that my family's owned (including 2 Maltese)have been horribly treated. They've all *gasp* been trained and expected to *gulp* obey and *shudder* walk on their own. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />