I'm looking for different training techniques that FR'ers use to train the positions.

My GSD is nearly ready for the CDX and I'd like to start training the Utility exercises. One of the exercises is the Hand Signals, the dog changes position from a stand to a down to a sit.

How do you guys prevent the dog from creeping forward during the changes in position?

Thank you!

Jackie,
I'll give you the quick and easy answer - just teach the hand signal exercise for the UD commands within a *close* distance ( so that you may correct as needed )......then when they're solid, add distance.
Trust me, it'll work fine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

We put pvc pipe in front of dog, (after doing as Will says) to clean up the forward movement. We also teach the dog down from the stand so he learns to down going back, as opposed to from the sit where they go forward. the same is taught for the stand The pvc helps so you can mark incorrect movement.

You can try teaching the different positions on a table or at the edge of steps, stairs, etc. Dogs learn quickly to fold back to "down" from a "stand" and unfold in the opposite direction; to "sit" forward from a "down"; to "down" using their rear legs from a "sit" as well as to "stand" from a "sit".

Enough repetitions...and your dog will do this wherever.

Hand signals (in marker training) are usually the way a dog is "prompted" - without a verbal command - at the very beginning of ob, so that shouldn't be a problem at all.

I find, and others I train with as well that the table work doesn't transfer well and the use of a device (pvc) and a no marker has to be used anyway.

You're right. Tables and the like are only good for the very beginning IMO...to teach the form of movement to the dog.

Will,
I wish it were that easy. In the last three FR trials that I participated in, 90% of the dogs (aprox. 45) crept forward during positions on average two feet. The handler was sixty feet away. I'd guess 75% percent of the dogs missed at least two positions out of six that are required.
I'm not being sarcastic when I ask this but if you have a dog that will sit, down and stand six times with someone else calling the order And no creeping over the line, I'd like to see a clip.
One suggestion i'd make is reward the individual positions while on the ground while facing the dog. Then string them together. If the dog misses one or puts a foot over the line tell him no, heel him away and start the whole exercise over. Don't just correct and continue with the exercise if he misses one or creeps.

Scott, I've never competed in FR and I readily admit that it's much harder than AKC Obedience or SchH. I tailored my reply as someone that has a lot of AKC UD's ( and the range we work at is much less than FR, plus the distraction level is lower )

Many, if not most of the dogs competing in AKC Ob are of a lower drive than we see in the protection sports, and they tend to creep less from the "down exercise" due to that lower drive.

My last UD Rottie would have done what you mentioned. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Of course, there'd be no way in h*ll that she'd ever engage a man in a suit, so there ya go!

Jackie,

All of these ideas that have been given are great ideas. One other thing that I might add that might help (it did with my dog, but I can't say it will for every dog) is to reward the dog behind him/her. What I mean is when I am doing positions and I am facing my dog, I reward him for correct positions by throwing his reward behind him. I noticed early on that he was creeping due to the fact that he was anticipating his reward. Now he knows that he will always have to get his reward from behind him, which completely eliminated his creeping.

Good luck with your training. BTW..... FR is great but don't forget about MondioRing too. You can never have too many titles.

The dogs that I have seen do this exercise perfectly have been lower drive dogs as you mentioned Will. It's almost better to teach this exercise with compulsion over drive. I rewarded my dog with the tug on the ground behind him for awhile. He developed a problem of anticipating the release. As he popped up he'd start to turn a little each time. I think it's better to let him see the reward right in front of him and really learn what you want. I hold the ball or tug in my hand and stand in front of him at varying distances. If he does what I want, i slowly walk towards him until the tug is right on his nose. then I release him. If he steps forward toward the tug, he gets nothing and we start over. Lately I've put a long line on my dog and have someone stand about twenty feet behind him holding the line loosely. When I give the command, the second party pops the leash if the dog even thinks about downing forward instead of backing into a down. This way, you can give a light directional correction from sixty feet away. You can't get that with an ecollar.