Just for fun, here are 2 examples of registered Malinois who are littermates, while we're talking about Mals/Tervs:
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Hondo.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/DSC02108.jpg

With these two boys, the short haired one was a typical Mal...actually not as "bad" as a typical Mal, but very high play/prey, and a bit more hectic (but not bad for a Mal at all!)than his bro, Mr. Fluffy. Mr. Fluffy (Hondo) was a handful, but not QUITE as bouncy as Sharkey, if memory serves me. Either one would bite the $h!+ out of you and be happy to do it, but their motivation just seemed a tad different, if that makes any sense.

Honestly, Hondo was one of those dogs who was not quite drivey enough in terms of play/prey to make it as a high level sport dog (which Sharkey absolutely could've been) but too much for an average handler. Hard dog to really pigeon-hole, actually.

Steve, A+ in Stalking, 101. Ah, the wonders of the internet. You can find anything out about anyone, if you really want to. I googled myself just for fun, and all that comes up is this site. <sigh> How sad. This is all I'm known for, LOL. No scandals, no drama, just dogs, dogs, and dogs.

An invaluable tool, Steve.

I'm really glad about the way this thread turned out. Really awesome information from all ye experienced people!

eta. ps. Steve, the stalking comment was purely joking

 Quote: jenni williams

Ah, the wonders of the internet. You can find anything out about anyone, if you really want to.

I had to laugh when I read the word "stalking" in Katie's post. It takes seconds to Google someone's background, and based on PMs, I can say that forum people on most boards do just that.

 Quote: jenni williams

 Quote: connie sutherland

" I'd say the coats leaned more toward fight and defense and the stock coats leaned way more on the prey/play (typical Mal) side. "


So mellower wouldn't be the word you'd use, then.

I would say that if you had both long and short hairs in the house, the long hair would SEEM mellower, however, when pushed, they are NOT mellower in terms of aggression. On the contrary, actually. However, if you never put them under that kind of pressure, it's possible that you could go on believing they ARE truly mellower. ...

That was exactly what I meant. I meant that mellower would be a deceptive word, given the description you were leaning towards.

Ok, good then. I got "mellower" from Randy's post (which I think he took from Joy) and spun off from there.

Yes, it's deceptive in both semantics and actuality. Everyone expects certain behaviors from the "normal" Mal, but not his seemingly calmer, fluffier brother. I would go so far as to say it's not just deceptive, but a dangerous misperception that could get someone in trouble if they were banking on Mr. Fluffy being more laid-back. People tend to be more alert to the more obviously driven dogs.

"Lower energy in non-threatening circumstances" may be a better phrase.

Lord, this is getting complicated.

 Quote: randy allen

Well, I'll stick my neck out here because I don't really know if it can happen.
So Joy you're saying that, say a Mal litter has a long hair in it (may be considered a Terv), that dog will probably have a lower prey drive then the others?

If the trait is the result of linkage between the coat length and the prey drive, yes. If it is due to the way many people raise and treat long coats, only if that pup went to such a person. And if it was due to those who breed specifically for the long coat also selecting for a mellower dog, than no because it wouldn't have come from such a breeding.

So tp answer you, it depends>

 Quote: Elaine Haynes

John Buddy's answer regarding coats:

but two smooths could throw a rough. Can you tell me if this person is correct?


Yes...she is correct. Two (rough factored) smooths could throw a rough. It generally happens when the sire and dam have one parents that was a rough and one that was a smooth.


Hope this helps!

John

That's correct. But the rough gene could theoretically stay masked for generations.

A smooth could be homozygous dominant LL, or heterozygous Ll. If at least one parent were homozygous dominant, it couldn't produce a rough even if mated to a rough, which is ll. But if both were heterozygous and a pup got one l from each parent, it would be rough.

 Quote: randy allen

And joy,
As much as you like semantics I feel it behooves me to point out that 'mellower' does not translate to prey or any other drive, period.
It connotes the over all bearing of the dog.
However if you want to limit it to prey that's fine by me.

And on the bye, when did you stop being a breeder?

I'm not limiting it to prey drive. I'm just using prey drive as the best example. And some drives could possibly be found in a mellower dog, but not others. The drive to orient toward people is often found in mellow dogs, for instance.

 Quote: jenni williams

 Quote: connie sutherland

" I'd say the coats leaned more toward fight and defense and the stock coats leaned way more on the prey/play (typical Mal) side. "


So mellower wouldn't be the word you'd use, then.

I like this thread.

I'm getting confused,now, LOL. I would say that if you had both long and short hairs in the house, the long hair would SEEM mellower, however, when pushed, they are NOT mellower in terms of aggression. On the contrary, actually. However, if you never put them under that kind of pressure, it's possible that you could go on believing they ARE truly mellower.

I guess I would say that they have a TENDENCY to SEEM more "laid-back," while the stock coat ("normal" Mal) is typically bouncing off the walls.

Or, Connie, did I misunderstand what you were asking? Did you mean that in reference to Joy's assertion that they are mellower or did you mean that in reference to my post? I like this thread but it's making my head hurt.

So is laid-back and mellow not the same thing? English is not my first language, so I sometimes misunderstand the difference between two terms used in a similar fashion. But I try to be clear on what I mean. I just don't always succeed.

Thanks for the clarification. But you do confirm that you've noted a difference in behavior between short and long in Belgian Shepherds. Now I don't feel like I've been hallucinating all these years.