Quote: Jennifer Lee

.... I have been using virgin coconut oil to get weight on my hard keeper

Raw virgin coconut oil* is kinda spendy, but it is such a great fat to add. It's pretty much immune to rancidity and is even moderately antibicrobial/antiviral. (BTW, don't picture a liquid oil; it's actually more of a mayonnaise-type consistency at room temperature.)

(Of course, it doesn't take the place of the long-chain Omega 3s in fish oil.)





*I'm sure there are many brands, but this is the one I found in the local natural-foods store:
http://www.premierorganics.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=83&Itemid=35
That photo is the coconut butter, but the coconut oil is in a similar-looking jar.

We feed him in one of those durapet 3 qt stainless steel bowls and we leave him alone once the bowl in his crate. He eats better with us not doting over him. I know the first day or 2 we watched intently to see if he ate and someone on this forum told us to try backing off and just let him be and that is what has worked.

I know exactly what you're talking about in raw coconut oil (the mayo looking one) and actually have some and will keep that on the "to try" list. On the advice of some recent posters, I tried mixing his kibble with some canned tuna (w/ oil) and he's liking it a lot (ate 14 oz yesterday and 11 oz today w/ 1 meal to go vs his usual 8-10 oz). It sure smells fishy but I guess that's what they like. I went out and got some canned sardines today and will try that next to give him some variety. The early signs are encouraging and I hope I can continue building on this and also work in the mixed treat bag.

I had this issue come up today though (twice) while I was walking him. Louie is easily rattled (very jumpy) by noises, especially loud/unexpected and noises that come from behind him. Sometimes people walking behind him have the same effects. First example: I led him outside of the apt building and 2 people are walking behind us (5 yards+ away) on the sidewalk. He'll walk 5 steps, turn back and stop to stare, turn front and walk 5 steps, repeat (think paranoid). Second example: There was some wind that rattled some leaves on a tree way up in the air. It didn't even seem that loud, but he jumped back so fast/hard that my arm tugged with him. Good thing I had a firm grip w/ hand wrap around on the leash or else he would've ripped it out of my hand. And sometimes he'll just randomly go on crazy alert jump back mode at little to nothing (think paranoid again). Once he's in this scared mode, he'll pull on the leash very hard (usually in the direction to go back to the apt building) and any pop corrections I make won't stop him from pulling. It just looks like he's in flight mode and tunes me out completely. So my questions are:

Should I be pop correcting him when he's in this frenzy scared state? If not, do I hold him firm until he calms down? I don't want to reinforce his scared state by comforting him either. I'm confused as to what to do in this situation. Thoughts and help please!

 Quote: simon tai

.... First example: I led him outside of the apt building and 2 people are walking behind us (5 yards+ away) on the sidewalk. He'll walk 5 steps, turn back and stop to stare, turn front and walk 5 steps, repeat (think paranoid). Second example: There was some wind that rattled some leaves on a tree way up in the air. It didn't even seem that loud, but he jumped back so fast/hard that my arm tugged with him. Good thing I had a firm grip w/ hand wrap around on the leash or else he would've ripped it out of my hand. And sometimes he'll just randomly go on crazy alert jump back mode at little to nothing (think paranoid again). Once he's in this scared mode, he'll pull on the leash very hard (usually in the direction to go back to the apt building) and any pop corrections I make won't stop him from pulling. It just looks like he's in flight mode and tunes me out completely. So my questions are:

Should I be pop correcting him when he's in this frenzy scared state? If not, do I hold him firm until he calms down? I don't want to reinforce his scared state by comforting him either. I'm confused as to what to do in this situation. Thoughts and help please!

I would not correct him, but I agree completely with not reinforcing anxiety with soothing/coddling. I'd probably take him calmly off the main traffic area of the sidewalk to do a little marker work.

I forget whether you have started focus or any other marker work. My goal would be to very calmly "change the subject."

He has not been with you very long. I wouldn't be surprised that he doesn't know yet that you will always stand between him and "the enemy." So in the case of the people walking behind, I'd probably "pull over" (simply step aside, but with your focus elsewhere than on the people) and then resume walking after they have passed. Someone walking behind, to the dog, might still represent someone following rather than just someone traveling in the same direction.

Your own absolute calmness is crucial. I wouldn't give his fearful behavior even the attention of a correction for pulling, which is why I'm thinking of "pulling over" for now while you work at home (with no distractions, to start) on focus.

Do you march along pretty purposefully when you're walking? That is, are you striding briskly with occasional stops for a break when he is allowed the length of the leash to sniff and pee, etc.?

P.S. Remember this, just a month ago:

 Quote: Simon Tai

We just tried to take Louie out for a walk, and he seemed unwilling. He kept trying to duck back into the crate, and we basically had to drag him out so that we can take him outside to pee. Is there anything we can do to encourage him to come out? We tried some treats...but he seems to have no food drive currently. Is there anything else we can do? Any advice would be helpful. Thanks!

Look how far he has come in one short month!

 Quote: simon tai

.... I know exactly what you're talking about in raw coconut oil (the mayo looking one) and actually have some and will keep that on the "to try" list. On the advice of some recent posters, I tried mixing his kibble with some canned tuna (w/ oil) and he's liking it a lot (ate 14 oz yesterday and 11 oz today w/ 1 meal to go vs his usual 8-10 oz). It sure smells fishy but I guess that's what they like. I went out and got some canned sardines today and will try that next to give him some variety.

I'd pick up some canned mackerel and, as you mentioned, sardines. You can get canned fish with nice soft bones in it, too, like salmon and sardines. If you look around, you can sometimes find sardines for a dollar and ditto for the cheapest salmon (with skin and bones included). Canned mackerel has no bones, but I think you can find it much cheaper than tuna, and another nice thing about all three of these canned fish is the low risk of heavy metals, like mercury.

(King mackerel is included with shark, swordfish, Spanish mackerel, etc., all on the high end of the food chain and all on the high end of the heavy-metal-danger list too. But canned mackerel is another type of mackerel called "jack," and it's way down there near salmon on the mercury lists.)

If he is already eating oil-packed fish with no GI issues, then you may not need to be too gradual with the raw coconut oil. Still, it's always easier to avoid diarrhea than fix it.

(Healthy dogs use raw fat very well. In fact, they use it almost the same way that humans use complex carbohydrates. It's unfortunate that both chronic and acute pancreatitis in dogs have triggered kind of a "low-fat is better" misguided perception. Much better dog-feeding advice for healthy dogs, IMHO, is to limit cooked fats and to absolutely avoid rancid fat of any kind.)

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Do you march along pretty purposefully when you're walking? That is, are you striding briskly with occasional stops for a break when he is allowed the length of the leash to sniff and pee, etc.?

I guess I take a more leisurely stroll when I'm walking Louie as opposed to a purposeful walk... definitely not striding briskly.

I've done minimal marker training with him thus far (just charging the mark a handful of times and the not to successful sit training I mentioned before once). Haven't done anything regarding focus. When he's in flight mode I can't get him to focus. He won't even eat a treat, much less participate in marker training. Just briskly looking around paranoid and being jumpy.

I will try the getting him off to the side to regroup tactic next time. And I'll stop correcting him during that too. My panic in my last post wasn't for Louie's behavior, it was rather for my own inexperience and inability to handle the situation I was in. That being said I do stay calm while I'm out there with him and I know that's important.

What do you suggest I do with building focus?

 Quote: connie sutherland

I'd pick up some canned mackerel and, as you mentioned, sardines. You can get canned fish with nice soft bones in it, too, like salmon and sardines. If you look around, you can sometimes find sardines for a dollar and ditto for the cheapest salmon (with skin and bones included). Canned mackerel has no bones, but I think you can find it much cheaper than tuna, and another nice thing about all three of these canned fish is the low risk of heavy metals, like mercury.

If he is already eating oil-packed fish, then you may not need to be too gradual with the raw coconut oil. Still, it's always easier to avoid diarrhea than fix it.

(Healthy dogs use raw fat very well. In fact, they use it almost the same way that humans use complex carbohydrates. It's unfortunate that both chronic and acute pancreatitis in dogs have triggered kind of a "low-fat is better" misguided perception. Much better dog-feeding advice for healthy dogs, IMHO, is to limit cooked fats and to absolutely avoid rancid fat of any kind.)

Good call on the mackerel and salmon. The sardines I picked up today were the dollar on sale variety so I'll have to watch out for sales on the other fish too. Now that you mention it, Louie did have diarrhea on this afternoon's walk. He had a few smelly farts throughout the day beforehand too. I attributed it to the tuna, but figured he would need an adjustment to get used to the oily fish? With that knowledge, should I continue to feed him fish/coconut oil? Maybe see how it is for a few days and hope his system adjusts to it?

When you say healthy dogs should be limited to cooked fats... what about the fat on raw chicken quarters or beef? Not feeding him raw yet but will get there.

 Quote: simon tai

... When you say healthy dogs should be limited to cooked fats... what about the fat on raw chicken quarters or beef? Not feeding him raw yet but will get there.

I am on my way out but had to log in and flag this. I said "limit cooked fats," rather than "limit to cooked fats."

Healthy dogs use raw fats very well.

Misconceptions have arisen around good raw fats for dogs because of two things, I think: One is that so many pet dogs are fat. The other is that acute pancreatitis is often connected with cooked (or rancid) fats. In fact, vets have a term for the acute pancreatitis that often happens around Thanksgiving and other feast days when dogs are so likely to be allowed (or they dumpster-dive for) large amounts of cooked fats, such as gravy, roasted turkey skin, buttery stuffing, and so on. They call it "holiday pancreatitis."



Probably others will see the thread and respond to the rest, and also I will be back online (as will others, I am sure) tomorrow.

You are doing a good job, BTW. I really applaud you!

 Quote: Simon Tai

I had this issue come up today though (twice) while I was walking him. Louie is easily rattled (very jumpy) by noises, especially loud/unexpected and noises/people that come from behind him.

Just got back from walking Louie. I went at a faster pace (briskly walking) tonight. It was a little better as there's less people/cars around late at night. He still got jumpy when I inadvertently walked into some branches/leaves (made noises) that were hanging down on the sidewalk and towards the end of the walk pulled with all his might all the way home. He also had more diarrhea (probably from the addition of the oily tuna).

After he came back he did eat 4 oz of kibble/sardines in water/chicken broth mix, totaling 15 oz of food for the day! Much better than the 8-10oz he was eating before adding the fish.

Woke up to Louie's constant moving about/shifting in his crate. I had a feeling he was uncomfortable so I took him out a little earlier than usual (5:30am vs 7:30am). As soon as I opened the crate door and put a leash on him I knew something wasn't right. He started trying to sniff/spin around like he was ready to poop. I got him the heck outside as fast as I can and indeed he had another bout of diarrhea. It was the 3rd time in a row and this time it was very watery/mucus like towards the end. Looks like the tuna really did a number on his system. I feel so bad for him as I've had gastro issues for a large part of last year and know how uncomfortable/painful it is for him to go through it.