Connie,

Sorry I'm so dense sometimes. Also in a hurry most of the time. But after I had re-read your links I realized what you were trying to get through to me about the face rubbing.

So last time I wrote he was itching alot on Thurs. Now Sun. and doing better. He was not breaking the skin or licking his feet. And I think the Chlortrimeton starting on Thurs. has started to help. Also rinsing feet all the time.
I called vet about the medicated shampoo and can only use b4 giving Advantix. Rest of the time a soapless shampoo is needed.

I think I will go to Aug 15th when we have another visit with Derm Vet to think about any change in diet. Like I said he is doing well on THK. The only thing I don't like is all the pooping. He's getting me up extra early because he has to poop. B4 on the raw diet he could wait till I decided to get up. Anything to help with that. ?

Thanks Geri

Lori,

As I wrote to Connie I'm going to wait on the elimination diet for now. He is doing better now that I have started him with the Chlortrimeton.
I'm also going to try the bath once a week with the other protocals and see how that works.
I like your advise on the use of the steriods. Sounds like a plan.
Did you say you are still doing the shots. ? If you are for how long have you been giving them?
I know it takes time. This guy is so worth it.
Also I wrote Connie about all the poop from THK. That was an advantage to the raw diet. Any way to slow that down.?
Someone wrote on a dog site that some of the foods (using THK) caused more poop than others, but they didn't mention which ones.
I've use the beef (Love) to start and now we are on the chicken.
Any ideas?

That hot spot spray sounds good. I found a shampoo with the tea tree oil and aloe. Suppose to be good. Going to try it soon.


Thanks again
Geri

I hope that journal is in full swing! Now you're seeing the multiple elements that there is no way to track without it. Don't forget dose amounts, and don't forget daily itch level. (Devise a scale for yourself to you.)

About poop: You can manipulate the mealtimes to manipulate poop times. (I.e., how many hours from supper to morning poop? That tells you when you want to give supper.)

About the antihistamine: It takes several days to accurately assess whether it's beneficial (and how beneficial). That's why when I am trialing them, usually I get 10 days' worth each of hydroxyzine HCI, chlorpheniramine, and hydroxyzine pamoate from the vet.

About the baths: remember that even a good rinse is better than nothing. In summer, even the water in the host may not be too cold. (If it is, just get a 5-gallon bucket, like a restaurant supply bucket, fill it at the hose ... don't lug around a filled 5-gallon bucket .... and add a teakettle of boiling water.) Pour pitchers full over the dog. I do this on the cement walkway, but a driveway would work. Don't use a kiddie pool or the like, because you need the water to rinse off, and not have the dog sitting or standing in the water which is quickly filled with pollen, etc.

I still have the dog walk through a pan of fresh clean water very close to the door before coming back in ..... pat dry carefully, especially between toes.

Is the antihistamine having any sedating effect? (Log this!)

Don't forget the fish oil and E.

Is his sleep interrupted with itching?

Geri, we have been doing the shots now for about 4 years. It took a good 8 months for us to see a difference. And even then, it doesn't get rid of the itching, but it knocks it down a few points. We tried stopping them for a few months because we didn't think it helping enough to pay for it, but once we stopped we saw the difference and went back to it again. In these dogs who are allergic to so many things, the shots are usually not a miracle, but more of another tool in our box to reduce the itching.

The subject of a lot of poop - ah, yes! We too have that problem if he's on anything but raw (you get really spoiled on raw with the poops!). I don't ever use THK by itself. If I feed THK, like on vacation, then I throw in chicken backs with it. If you use bones with it, then you are going to have a lot less poop! It also cuts down on the expense of THK. Do you have access to chicken backs?

I've had the almost-miracle experience with the shots. It took many months (maybe almost a year, not sure now), but that dog had six or seven very severe allergies as opposed to a zillion mediums.

That dog actually went into what I would have to call remission. (This isn't the usual result.)

Otherwise, I've had the results Lori describes. I would call the regimen worth the money, based on my own experiences.

I have not had a "no-benefit" experience, and of the ones I have read and heard described, I've seen a consistent theme of giving up after a couple of months, not understanding how the injections work. What a waste of money and time to do the intradermal testing and then the lab formulations and then not follow up. But it seems to be largely due to an expectation that the injections would "work" like an antibiotic or something, when what they really do is slowly and gradually (with increasing amounts) kind of "re-train" the immune system's response. The exact mechanism really isn't completely known, I believe, but the term "desensitizing immunotherapy" works pretty well.

PS
I'm with Lori on chicken backs in the THK. Chicken backs can even exceed the recommended "add-in" amount, IMO, because they have such a good calcium-phosphorus balance on their own. (This is JMO! And it does not apply to growing pups.)

PS

I forgot one thing. I have had the experience of the first set of vials maybe being too strong. That is, the dog seemed itchier.

The derm vet had the lab reformulate, and that original "first set" became the third set.

So tinkering and good communication might be required.

Connie,

Yes I am keeping track of everything. The itching is so far what I would say under a 5. Usually a 3.

I did change his dinner till around 7 instead of 5 and that has help so that he sleeps a little later in the AM. He usually poops on his last walk around 9:30 or 10:00.

I e mailed THK and they said 3 to 5 times a day (of poop) is normal with their food.

The chlorpheniramine seems to help. We have tried the others you mentioned and they all seemed to work in the beginning. But when he was at his worst, nothing helped.
So with doing all the protocals I hope this chlorpheniramine will keep him comfortable.
The chlorpheniramine is a little sedating, but not bad.

He is getting a bath at vet once a week. I am going to try and bathe him when I can if I can't I will rinse him as you advised.

He is getting his fish oil and vit E every day.

He does not sleep with us so all I can do is gage what is going on with him by watching him during the day.

No questions today. How about that. So far, so good. I've learned a lot from you and Lori.

Thanks

Lori,

I will stick with the shots. I wonder if it has to be a life time thing sometimes. ?

Yes, I can get the chicken backs and necks. Have been doing that. Of course he loves them.

So I hope things keep going well for us. BTW, love the pictures of your Golden. What a beautiful dog.

I'll check in as we move along on this journey.

Thanks
Geri

Glad things are going pretty well so far!!

Not sure if all dogs have to be on the shots for life, but I believe Kasey will have to be. Connie, what do you know about that?

Geri, does giving backs with THK cut back on the number of poops?

LOri,

I just give him a little of the backs but I think I"m going to increase the amount. Per Connie I changed his dinner to after 7 PM and that way he is not getting us up so early to go out in the morning. WE are night people when we can and try to sleep in a little in the AM. So that has helped a lot.
Something that I need to do is get sneaky about giving his shots. He is on to me now and does not like them. He has jerked a couple of times and I'm afraid I'm going to stick myself.
We have tried with me behind hiim and my husband giving him chicken but he still jerked. My husband suggestive sneaking up on him when he is sleeping but I don't like that idea too much. Your thoughts please.

Geri