Reply to VanCamp:

Our dogs do have great temperaments. They love playing with kids, (the kids wear down long before the dogs do when playing retrieve with the ball) Yes they are sweet and friendly (not overly), but do not hesitate to defend us, the house, the car, and the yard, when they perceive a threat.

We do agree that correct temperament in the GSD does include nerve, drive, aggression, and a level of sharpness. But these must all be balanced with the dog still remaining very level headed. These qualities are VERY beneficial in the show and trial rings. You want a dog who is full of drive and energy, but also a very strong temperament and trainability.

We are putting working titles on them. Up until now we have been working on obtaining our dogs Canadian ConfOrmation Championships (you dont "confirm" to the standard you "conform") and have also been working on Obedience and other things. Later this month we are also participating in a Search and Rescue seminar. Without working ability and sound confOrmation you do not have a German Shepherd Dog...

I am a minor (under 18 to clarify), during school I like to cruise around the web boards in my spare time. Due to the Language filter that the Schools have, it makes it impossible for me to visit this web board. Is it really necessary to use such profanity in your posts? I do understand you feel very strongly about certain issues and I respect that people should feel strongly about issues that are important to them. In school kids swear to act tougher.. this is how you come across... I might take your opinion more seriously if it was presented in a more appropriate manner with the purpose of educating instead of out and out bashing.

And YES it is possible to stack a dog to show more or less angulation.
I was not comparing my dogs structure to yours.
If I am showing to a judge who does not put up dogs with a lot of angles then I set the dog up in a relaxed pose. If I am showing to a judge that puts up more extremely angled dogs I'll stretch the rear leg back and push the dogs into their stack to give the illusion of more topline and angulation...

Sheila
http://www.members.shaw.ca/skyegsd
Sher She German Shepherds and Handling <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

WELL DONE SABLE_LVR

Kick 'im once for me while he's down.

Trying to work towards the intended ideal is the goal of breeding. But I think that you will agree the standard Show Shephard doesn't come close. That is why you have to modify your stack. And how many of those dogs could keep up with your dogs in a play fest. Keep up what you are doing your attitudes is what will save the breed if it is to be done. You may even be able to pull off taking your SchH (whatever) back in to the ring to point out the fallicies of the idiots that just don't get it.

SkyeGSD:

You go, girl! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Sable_Lvr:
Our dogs do have great temperaments. We are talking apples and oranges.

I take Auster to handling and she's the best tempered GSD with the most pleasing gait that they have ever seen. They are amazed by her unexaggerated beauty.

Then I take Auster to a SchH club. She's a nice pet, but not much more.

So it seems that the gsd working and show line are very far apart that all of you consider that they seem to be a breed apart. I`m just wondering about in germany, i don`t know if it is true that they are trying to have a so called "universal seiger show"

Hello Ferron... welcome back. Both question threads that you started generated some great conversation. You'll find that we have members from diverse backgrounds and perspectives.

I personally believe that the Unversal Sieger program is an excellent idea. But I suspect that over the long run, winners will tend to be working line dogs that also have good conformation (rather than show dogs that work well). Even though it may not "unite" the two camps, it will encourage the breeding of better dogs.... great question.

108 posts. It started out great with some great comments and now is going down hill. If you people are still interested in talking about this topic (God only knows why) then bring it back on track and play nice.

Man that Vince P. is hard core.

Anything that will contrast the working ability of the working line GSDs with the show lines will be a positive step. If done on a large scale it could very well be the death toll of the show line dogs in the eyes of most GSD people. Like I said before, I have never met a GSD owner that didn't want his/her dog to be able to protect them if the situation demanded it. Who is gonna want a dud GSD, who is gonna PAY for one? You can already see it coming in the adds for GSDs in the dog mags.

Education about working dog temperaments and aggression would be the next most important thing to do. Handling a dog with intact drive and working ability. And understanding what makes a vicious and dangerous dog, and what does not. Also understanding what it takes for a dog to do the work. (protection, police service, herding, and SAR)

The most difficult will be to re-hash a new standard for the GSD that makes over angulation, weak bone, and sloped butts DISQUALIFYING FAULTS. And then implement that standard in the SV, the ACK, and FCI. (not to mention the other organizations and breed specific organizations.) One universal standard that mirrors good working line dogs.

How about that?

All other off shoots of the GSD run into a genetic dead end. Nobody breeds 'em any more.