I agree that breeding is the key. So many people get into the breeding craze,they do not think about the two dogs they are breeding. Have you noticed whenever a new dog movie hits the screen and becomes popular that type of dog is bred and bred and bred, (of course to make money) and the breed really takes a nose dive in temperment and confirmation? Sad.
Also, as I see society becoming more and more violent, they love to parade the fact they own an agressive dog. My husband and I were talking the other night about how some people encourage their dogs to be agressive when they are puppies and have no idea what they are doing. Then when they are older, they can't handle them any more, they take them to shelters.
I believe the answer is what was stated above, exposing the lie and educating people abut the importance of breeding practiced and understanding temperment.
I hate to see the dogs what were trained to fight and kill other dogs be put down, because they were only obeying what we taught them. I hate to see anyone give up on an agressive dog, but many don't know what to do with them and are afraid. I think it is commendable that we try all we can to save them. But when there is really no hope, we have to protect other dogs and people.
I live in an area where people love to have pit bulls for protection (they call it). Many are drug users and are hoping they can get them to protect their stash. We had a neighbor who did this. Then one day they left the gate open, and a neighbor was walking her elderly mid sized dog, and the pit bull charged out and killed her dog right before her eyes! The shelter came after our neighbor, who just decided to let the dog out of the yard one day and not claim ownership of it. This is a complicated issue. But I feel we owe it to the dogs to try and help them. But we also owe it to our families and our dogs to protect them from dogs that are really dangerous.
I wish we could get some good education out there.
It is heart breaking for people whose dogs are killed or mauled, and for the dog who learns to be agressive who ends up a case too hard to rehabilitate and is put to sleep.
Maybe we could each call our shelters, or go down and visit and talk with someone about their policies re: agressive dogs, and adoption. I don't know, what do you think we can do?
Sharon Empson

 Quote: jenni williams

 Quote: keleah schmaltz

it's all on how you raise it and how your actions can be a factor on how the dog reacts to people and other animals.

Keleah, I commend you for wanting to help APBTs, but I have to chime in w/something I've said a thousand times. There's a flaw in the "it's all how they're raised" theory. It's a nice thought, for sure, but it's just not true. Genetics is the single biggest contributor to temperament. If it were "all how you raise them" then we would not need working bloodlines. We would be able to go get a showline and raise it to be a PPD. See where I'm going with this?

People simply need to understand temperament and be on the lookout for aggressive tendencies and always be honest w/themselves and others about what their dog's true temperament is. Yes, you can work on control and stability, but at the end of the day, or when things get ugly, that dog is going to react the way his genes are telling him to to a certain degree.

Every time someone excuses or blames a dog because of it's upbringing, we're walking a thin, dangerous line. Yes, it's very sad that dogs are abused. However, the majority of shy, mistrustful dogs have not been abused. Take ownership of the dog you have, understand it's strengths and weaknesses, and realize that you can only do so much to overcome nature. I've used my own dogs as an example so many times, I'm sure everyone's sick to death of hearing about them, but not one of them is the same,and in fact a few of them are absolute contradictions to the way they were raised, indicating that it's not "all how they're raised." They are individuals w/very strong genetic personalities.

The answer to the breed/aggression problem lies in exposing this lie and educating people about the importance of breeding practices and understanding temperament. If people believe that you can raise a dog properly, and then it just flips out at 4 years old, Pit Bulls will be exterminated for sure.

I can't agree more with the genetic tie into temperament, I've seen it many times with dogs. It needs to be considered more than it is.
For a human example: When I was a kid I salted my hot food in the belief that it would make it cooler. I quit that a LONG time ago and forgot about it. I now have two young kids who both do it without having gotten any verbal or active cues from me, and they don't believe me when I tell them it isn't true. There are also twins studies that support the genetic behavior link.

Along these same lines, people don't realize how late Pits tend to mature-typically around 3-4 years. Sooo, all these stories about dogs suddenly losing their minds just might have a maturity/hormonal component, and the owners just didn't heed the red flags that came up in the very early days of the dog's life. I will use my older APBT as an example. I don't think that a shelter would put her up for adoption now-I think she'd be euth'd. She was about 8-9mos old when I got her-happy as could be, got along w/kids, cats, dogs, you name it. Now, a year later, she will fight at the drop of a hat. She never starts a fight, but boy will she look for signs that someone else wants to bring one on. I have to keep her away from large dogs b/c the second one tries to dominate her, or is playing too roughly, it's like this switch goes off and she gets down and dirty. She's not angry when she does this; she's simply doing as her genetics tell her to. She is disappointed and confused when I put a stop to her behavior, or when the other dog gets upset. She's safe w/smaller dogs, puppies, and cats.

Also, her very first encounter w/a large animal was with a horse. She stared at it a minute, and then lunged and grabbed it by the nose...no noise whatsoever. Ever see a Pit on a bull? (not fun to see, but the truth is the truth) That nose grab is fundamental...and to the best of my knowledge, she has never seen me bite a horse in the nose. My point is that they are what they are...and it pays to be aware for signs of things to come as they mature. The key is control and diligence.

I couldn't agree more with Jenni. She is right and genetics was one thing I learned about, after finding this site.

I used to be a big promoter of "it's all how they are raised". I used to blame bad dogs' owners for lack of education on how they raised their dogs. Actually, I still blame the owners, but now it's got a twist. A complicated twist called genetics that makes it even harder to understand for a good hearted owner. That's tough, but that's the way it is. All I can keep pushing is educating the human and seriously penalizing the offenders. Each time a harsher penalty for repeat offenders. We have these so called "laws". Enforce them. I'm really curious as to how people who don't worry about this and the abuse BSL breeds receive, will act, when the time comes that their favorite breed is under the radar. All it takes is the next big dog movie.

 Quote: jenni williams

 Quote: keleah schmaltz

it's all on how you raise it and how your actions can be a factor on how the dog reacts to people and other animals.

Keleah, I commend you for wanting to help APBTs, but I have to chime in w/something I've said a thousand times. There's a flaw in the "it's all how they're raised" theory. It's a nice thought, for sure, but it's just not true. Genetics is the single biggest contributor to temperament. If it were "all how you raise them" then we would not need working bloodlines. We would be able to go get a showline and raise it to be a PPD. See where I'm going with this?

People simply need to understand temperament and be on the lookout for aggressive tendencies and always be honest w/themselves and others about what their dog's true temperament is. Yes, you can work on control and stability, but at the end of the day, or when things get ugly, that dog is going to react the way his genes are telling him to to a certain degree.

I do get where you're coming from and your right. While I was writing before I knew there was something I was missing because I had a brain fart
But I agree absolutely with the breeding and genetics. I want a working APBT not a dog with the dog fighting line. The thing is I know someone who has pits and he trains them (I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS), but sends them away to go fight in a city-while I don't agree with this, the guy has grown up with this all his life, it's in his background and is something culturally-he is a good a man and friend despite the dog fighting. I will not get a dog from this man, EVER.

That's another reason I'm having problems finding a APBT knowing that some of the "breeders" out there have used past or even current dogs for fighting, I just can't see a silver lining in finding one, which in turn is making my fiance reconsider getting a APBT and get a Rottie instead.

Just because you don't get a dog from KNOWN fighting lines does not mean it won't want to fight. They don't take much encouragement to fight; people seem to think you need to train these dogs to fight. You don't. Also, I would't hesitate to rescue a former fighter. It has zilch to do w/how the dog is w/people, or sometimes even other dogs, and it's terribly sad that they're euth'd instead of adopted out. IMO, a dog who has never been in a fight is not that much more or less likely to fight as one who has.

Keleah, I will tell you this. You will have a hell of a time finding anyone who breeds PBs for the right reasons now. They are all breeding these ugly a$$ dogs that should never be called a Pitt. The responsible people who DO love this breed aren't breeding these dogs anymore, because of all the PBs dying in shelters. If you want a PB, that is the best place to get one. Honestly. Screen it and raise it the best way you can. Always make sure you are in control, and know that you own a PB. You should be fine.

Thank you Alex, I have considered that option. I've seen a handful in the shelter here in WY, but I'm moving back to ND and will have to really up the ante in finding one at the shelters there-I would prefer a pup, but a young dog is fine by me-might not be for the fiance, but it'll be my dog. If anything were to happen(biting, etc.)as I raise the pup, I already know I will have it euth'd. Biting(exeption in SchH or PPD training or protecting me and my family) is something I do not tolerate.

Thank you again.

 Quote: Keleah Schmaltz

If anything were to happen(biting, etc.)as I raise the pup, I already know I will have it euth'd. Biting(exeption in SchH or PPD training or protecting me and my family) is something I do not tolerate.

You need to set boundaries. Lots of dogs/pups will bite if they think they can get away with it. They key is to be aware of a dog's genetic potential and react accordingly. If a dog isn't good w/kids, then keep it away from kids, etc. etc. Planning ahead to euth. isn't really the best plan. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you meant. If so, please correct me.

 Quote: jenni williams

Just because you don't get a dog from KNOWN fighting lines does not mean it won't want to fight. They don't take much encouragement to fight; people seem to think you need to train these dogs to fight. You don't. Also, I would't hesitate to rescue a former fighter. It has zilch to do w/how the dog is w/people, or sometimes even other dogs, and it's terribly sad that they're euth'd instead of adopted out. IMO, a dog who has never been in a fight is not that much more or less likely to fight as one who has.

I know that every APBT/Staff Terr./Staffy Bull has a background in fighting/baiting. I understand this and I understand that it is possible to get a dog that does have a fighting background and have no problems with it. I understand that raising a dog that is large, powerful and considered to be dangerous is a risk and a liability. Every single APBT I have met in my life has been the sweetest dog. There were 3 dogs living in one house and they were all APBT's and they all got along fine-never fought with each other, ever.
My mom had a friend who owned an awesome APBT, but when the media and news started talking about the dangerous pit bulls attacking people, she went and had her APBT euth'd. Just because people were starting to fear what they had no understanding of.

I own a GSD that could very well decide one day that it doesn't want to listen to me and attack someone or some other animal-and I know that there is that slight chance-but I'm willing to keep my dog and train it the best I can and with help from Ed's videos and try to have the "dream" dog. I can only hope to find a APBT from a breeder/shelter/rescue that is an awesome dog.