VanCamp,

Follow the link, and read the standard. The standard isn't the problem, it is everything that the current dogs aren't. THe thing that needs to be done is get the JUDGES EDUCATED as to what the STANDARD SAYS and to follow that. The standard has the over angulation and type of movement seen as FAULTS, get them to accept that and we are in a brand new ball game!!!!

Well let me see, we could re-educate all the judges in the world, most of which are the ENEMY. And will fight tooth and nail. . .

OR, we can work on the leadership of these organizations to alter the wording of the standard so as to specifically fault what has, in the past, been allowed to win in the show ring. Me thinks that would be a better road. It would eliminate room for debate about proper conformation. Here is the new standard, you don't like it - don't show your dogs. (or attempt to register them for that matter)

The standard must change. There is no other realistic way. I can read, I think I have it memorized in fact. The standard has not been used as a tool for conformation in a long ass time. Take a look at some of the original drawings and diagrams, see any dogs like that at Westmonster? Why not change it?

I think VanCamp is right, the changes must be made in the leadership of oraganization such as the SV, USA etc and to change the standards and regulations that judges and koremeisters abide by. Alright so we know what should be done. Talk is one things but how do we set this in motion to make the changes needed?

VanCamp,

Why not join, and participate in GSDCA and have a say in the standard.

And as you have so elequantly pointed out, if the present standard isn't followed, what makes you think a new one would? The way to the proper conformatiion is through GSDCA and the PROPER education of the judges. Even with a new standard, the same judges will be judging and there will be no change. If you want change you are going to have to work with in the organization of the dreded enemy. You may find more friends there than you think. Most of the time these types of organizations are really run by a vocal MINORITY. Be loud and proud and you will find the support you need.

The way to the proper conformation is through GSDCA and the PROPER education of the judges.
That makes sense. I've only shown dogs twice, many many years ago: once a Dobie, once a GSD (placed second and third respectively)...just enough experience to turn me on to OB. But I don't think much has changed in the show ring: despite what the commentators babble to the crowds at the Westminster, IMHO judges DO NOT judge to the standard in breed rings, but compare the dogs presented to them.
If they truly judged to the standard then would there not be cases where there is NO first given at all, indicating that no dog in that particular ring "ideally" represented the standard? Perhaps only seconds or thirds would be awarded. Have never seen that happen, have you?

In Europe, they can give the first for the dogs in the ring and withhold the CAC. That means the show doesn't count towards a championship. If the dog doesn't meet the standard the CAC is with held. You can win a hundred shows and not get any of the CAC, not likey but possible, and never get the championship. ARBA and some of the other rare breed shows do the same thing. So yes it can be done.

mmmm...interesting.
Messes up my view that judges only measuring dogs against each other in the ring, will cause certain extremes to occur over time: "Joe's dog got the win on the angulation this time, but with more angulation on my next entry, I can beat out his dog!"...and so on.

Happen to know if withholding points is done for any GSD speciality shows in the US? If it is then I really don't have a clue why the dogs in the Amercian rings look sooo different from the picture on the GSD standard... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

RICHARD <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Why are you so against changing the standard. There is some language as to what is a fault, but I intend to add language that makes these ASS and SV types disqualifying faults. As in go home, no show for you today.

That would be a positive change. It would also send a very clear message throughout the dog world. There was a problem that was hurting the breed, all the major GSD and Registration organizations came together and re-wrote the standard for the sake of the continuation of the breed.

WHERE IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THAT!?!?

I don't even really care if then some groups form a new breed registry and enter the American House Shepherd into the AKC or FCI. I don't have a problem with that. They will be shit dogs just like they are now, but breeding the two would be a no no. A mixed breed can't compete in the show ring. Through that into the plan as well, because there will be those few fanatics that want the ASS dog to continue. No problem just don't call it a German Shepherd Dog, and don't attempt to tell people that they are a working/utility breed.

VanCamp,

I am not necessarily against a modification of the standard, I just don't see the point. The only thing that will make a difference is to educate the judges and the GSDCA what people want. You can rage against the current situation all you want, it will only be that, it will make no changes. The breed changed because that is what a few vocal people told the world was correct. They will not change their idea of the perfect dog. If you want to restore the GSD to it's former position you need to make changes that will work, rather than attempting to scratch the current system and start over. If you don't believe that go talk to the Shilo Shepherd folks and see how big of an impact they have had in restoring thier idea of the ideal GSD. That was their goal, scap the current system and go back to the "original breed". That has worked well so far, hasn't it?

I said it before, I will say it again, the standard isn't the problem. People have ignored the present standard, they will ignore any standard you write. If you want to see improvement:

1- EDUCATE the judges as to what is proper for the breed
2- SHOW proper representatives of the breed.
3- Demonstrate properly structured dogs doing the jobs they were intended for in conjunction with sanctioned shows, even if it has to be at a different show grounds. See how many of the "show" people can compete and keep up with proper representatives of the breed. After all they will be there anyway, won't they?

With out this happening there will be no comparison of the types of dogs. And the ASS folks can make the continued claims that their dogs can do it as well as any of the "working" dogs.

My understanding is that the SV and WUSV have already told GSDCA in no uncertain terms to abandon the GSDCA/AKC standard and accept the FCI GSD standard (which is the SV standard) as is, translated into English with no modifications, or GSDCA will be expelled from the WUSV. It will be interesting to see if GSDCA and AKC can accept a standard that says the GSD should have "fighting drive".

Laura