LOL, height has plagued me my whole life. I am 6'1"...Gipsi and I often present an awkward picture, being that she is a medium female of 58lbs.

I appreciate humor! No one can laugh at me the way my dogs and I can!

And I was just kidding with Steve.

 Quote: stevezorn

Sorry for posting this again, but, it took to long to edit.

To: Susan,
You made the statement that you are glad that the SV has done so much to preserve the breed. You couldn't be more incorrect. They are probably the biggest reason that we have the divide in lines today. They are responsible for dumbing down Schutzhund requirements. The SV, like the GSDCA, is run by showline breeders, handlers, and judges. If you think that the SV cares about the working ability of GSD's please look in to anything that Helmut Raiser has written about this and please consider joining SV-2000.

Hey Steve, If you are going to quote me, the least you can do is get it right. What I SAID was:

As far as the two distinct types in Germany, you need to understand that without the SV, the two types would be much more "distinct" than what you see today, and it's quite possible the working line would have dissapeared altogether. Personally, because my interest lies in the working dog, I would like to see the SV sllow their judges to get a lot tougher as far as what passes in the protection work for the working class in shows. I do maintain though, without the SV the German show lines might not be distinguishable from the ASS!

My point being that without the SV the showline GSDs in Germany AND the rest of the world would probably be EVEN WORSE than what they are now, perhaps on a par with ASSs in this country.


You are free to disagree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, I would ask that you refrain from misquoting me.

As I see it a workingdogbreeder will not use showlines because there are so much better alternatives already among the workinglines. Finding a showline that are equal in both drive, structure and health as the better workingdogs, and also a good producer that are from a line of many good dogs, and not just a few here and there, are probably more or less fruitless.

Dee, nice dog, but compared with many workinglines not anything special, and as I said before, even on a worldlevel there are dogs that aren´t any special in my opinion, if we talking breeding.

OK, I had a whole Post typed out and almost hit send and then thought the better of it. I'd rather get my facts straight here before I post anything. My question , Do working line GSD's produce the "classic Black and Tan saddle" look that many many many people think of when they think GSD???

Yes, Tony. You can find many working line dogs that have the classic color. My Tiekerhook dog was classic black & tan saddle and they don't come more "working line" than that dog!

Thank you Susan. My Post was going to say that MANY people (at least those outside the veteran GSD community) believe that the Classic black and Tan saddle "look" "IS" infact the true GSD. The one and the only, with an occasional All black one here and there. I was going to say that the public's non-understanding of the breed is what causes the showlines to thrive. which is still true. I guess my point is that although "looks" should NOT be the basis of why you buy a dog, especially a GSD,the general public only knows that look, and wants what they believe is a GSD.

How to fix this, what to do about it?? Well, theres the option of educating, or should I say "re-educating" everyone in the world. Explain the differences to them, show them the differences etc. That's a pretty tall order.

Option #2) Try to "fix" the showlines. Breed working dogs to showline dogs in the hopes of creating the "goldenmiddle" or bringing the showlines back up to par. Well that option in itself seems to be its own global sized debate.

Then there's option # 3. Now keep in mind, I am a complete new guy at this. I don't know my paw from tail as far as breeding goes. I admit that. But I'm still going to throw this idea out there with the knowlegde that someone(s) are still going to take aim at it and say I am a crazy newbie. Option #3. How about the people in the power position, That would be those with great workingline dogs, the ones worth breeding because of their structure, health, temperament, drives, all around work ability, start taking over. Give the people what they are looking for. Give them their classic looking German Shepherd Dog. But give them a classic German Shepherd Dog of solid working lines. Give them Dogs whose Health is good. Whose temperaments are good. etc etc etc. Give them the better alternative. You have the power. It's in your hands. It's in your bloodlines. YOU can take over the situation and provide better dogs making the need for the showline dogs, nonexistant. I'm not saying breed for looks. But you are the people who know GSD's. You are the breeders who know what you are doing. So do what you do. Provide that look that mr/mrs joe smoe think is what a german shepherd looks like, but YOU will know that the dog is of solid working lines. Bettering the breed. Keeping the lines going and infact making them stronger against those who only breed for looks. Take over!! You don't need to start mass producing like many showline breeders do. But at least get it started. then maybe let it grow.

Ok, I've thrown in my 2 cents the the mix. Again, I am a newbie and I consider it an honor to be amongst you all.

Tony,

I had a black and tan GSD when I was a kid, in the 60's. Before researching GSDs a few years ago I had never seen a sable GSD, or heard of one. I still think the black and tan GSDs are the best looking. That said, I am constantly being told by people that Hans is a beautiful dog. They are always surprised to hear that he is a purebred GSD, they often think he is some kind of mix. But still, most people tell me he is a good looking dog. Gorgeous, beautiful, and noble are adjectives that have been used.

Personally, I don't see it, I think the black and tan dogs are prettier, and I'm talking about coloring here, not sloping backs or dogs that walk on their hocks (did I say that right?)

With shows like K9 Cops, more people are being introduced to working line sable and black GSDs. We'll see if public perception changes.

Alyssa,

There is nothing more fun than a GSD puppy chasing a ball across a linoleum floor and trying to stop.

 Quote: Tony Pergolizzi

Then there's option # 3. Now keep in mind, I am a complete new guy at this. I don't know my paw from tail as far as breeding goes. I admit that. But I'm still going to throw this idea out there with the knowlegde that someone(s) are still going to take aim at it and say I am a crazy newbie. Option #3. How about the people in the power position, That would be those with great workingline dogs, the ones worth breeding because of their structure, health, temperament, drives, all around work ability, start taking over. Give the people what they are looking for. Give them their classic looking German Shepherd Dog. But give them a classic German Shepherd Dog of solid working lines. Give them Dogs whose Health is good. Whose temperaments are good. etc etc etc. Give them the better alternative. You have the power. It's in your hands. It's in your bloodlines. YOU can take over the situation and provide better dogs making the need for the showline dogs, nonexistant. I'm not saying breed for looks. But you are the people who know GSD's. You are the breeders who know what you are doing. So do what you do. Provide that look that mr/mrs joe smoe think is what a german shepherd looks like, but YOU will know that the dog is of solid working lines. Bettering the breed. Keeping the lines going and infact making them stronger against those who only breed for looks. Take over!! You don't need to start mass producing like many showline breeders do. But at least get it started. then maybe let it grow.

The aim for most workingdog breeders aren´t to provide the general public with pretty dogs used as pets, if a potential owner has no intresst in a GSD except as a pretty pet, then they better get another breed more suitable. Better save the working GSD for those people really wanting such a dog.