Maggie...I would make the interaction with the pup more 'personal' then with a flirt pole. They have their place, but IMO NOT in this situation. I would want my pup's focus on ME. I would play tug with him where he has to interact directly with you not just run around chasing something to overcome the distraction.

I would take turns with walking around so he can see, smell & hear the new things & playing tug with him. This way he gets to be introduced to new things but also learns to focus & play with you around them...that way they become like 'white noise' in the background.

Playing tug with him in new places like you do at home...the less of a thing that he will make of all the 'stuff' around the new areas..the less he will think that they are something that he needs to be concerned with. He will just think it is the same game we play at home...just a new place.

This way you kinda kill 2 birds with the 1 stone..so to speak...(I really hate that expression)...he gets the comfort of playing with you & gets to be around new things. This goes a long way in setting him up for the future to learn to play everywhere with you...no matter what is going on around him. I personally feel that the play interaction goes farther then just to give treats. A bit different then when working with a reactive dog situation where you are trying to keep from setting off trigger reactions.

JMO & what I do. Everyone have their own way...but this has worked with the 3 pups that I a have recently raised.

Thanks Anne, makes sense - I am also watching (again) the videos of counter conditioning pups to potentially fearful situations.

This site has it all .. great advice and videos.

This is just a setback - with all the help I am getting we will work through it.

I'm looking at this more as a socializing/desensitizing issue.

Maybe it's just me, but the term counterconditioning for me is about teaching the dog to experience pleasure when he sees something that he fears (or did fear).

This may sound nit-picky, but this particular situation, for me, is less that and more a combo of desensitizing and socializing.

That is, I want the possible triggers to assume a background role.

Rather than "treats when around this," I'm aiming for "this is nothing to us." And to get there means (for me) fun work (or even better, as Anne points out, play) that puts the focus on me and off the background.

I hope I'm making sense. It's subtle. I'm still employing rewards (treats or tug) if I'm doing marker sessions.

Maybe it doesn't matter.



ETA
But Anne's post about playing really sounds "right" to me.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/31/2013 02:22 PM)
Edit reason: ETA

Well it's a learning curve for sure - I was watching this video

http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php/239/Fear_Period_In_Young_Dogs_-_Part_1/

It seemed to address what I am experiencing but for sure using a tug and doing the thing Anne is suggesting makes sense.

No doubt it will take time for me to find out what works best - so the more info I can absorb, the better. It's all good and appreciated.

The 'toy' can be a tug, ball/kong on a rope, a piece rope...whatever toy you use to interact PERSONALLY with to play with the dog. You just want to pup to be playing directly with you at your hands & focusing on you while playing.

Heiland is 4 months old today and I wanted to thank you for helping me .. he is awesome.

Blessings on all of you wonderful people who helped me so much both in the forum and in PM.



Edited by Maggie MacDonald (07/05/2013 11:52 AM)
Edit reason: To put photo in right place :)

I love that pool picture!

Great photos of a great looking pup, Maggie!!

I just wanted to say, it seems both my Shepherds went through the barking at other dogs phase at that same age. And I mean REALLY barking seriously!

Unfortunately, I blew it with the first one and he was forever fear aggressive with other dogs his whole life.. all 90+lbs of him!!

Ramsey did the same thing, but I got him out more and the fear changed to curiosity.

I actually went to a supervised puppy class, no off leash stuff. Initially, he barked like crazy. I sat on the sidelines until I saw him sniffing. Then I took one step closer. I continued to watch him, ready to leave if it was too much. But, he just became quieter and super curious. So I allowed him closer, and pretty soon he was playing with the gang. Never had another problem.

Now I know that is contrary to the advice on this board. But I spoke to a Shutzhund trainer here, and he said he actually has used the class for this purpose. He said give it a try if it's too much for your dog, just leave.

Now Ramsey is a 11/2 year old male. He may react as a male, but not fear aggression. We still have our moments if another dog gets stupid. It is a work in progress.

I'm not saying it will work for others, but it did the trick for Ramsey.

PS: 4 months old? Happy Birthday Heiland!

Maggie, you must be getting bitten right and left. I could hardly wait for all adult teeth. My skin looks much better now than it did then.... ENJOY!!LOL!

Edited by Carol Blumlein (07/05/2013 02:58 PM)
Edit reason: addition

A lot of what you did isn't contrary at all to what I (and many others) would recommend.

" .... went to a supervised puppy class, no off leash stuff. Initially, he barked like crazy. I sat on the sidelines until I saw him sniffing. Then I took one step closer. I continued to watch him, ready to leave if it was too much. But, he just became quieter and super curious. So I allowed him closer ... "

That's pretty much perfect. You did not flood the dog; you allowed no surprise strange-dog bounces in his face; supervised class, not off leash, .... sat on sidelines and moved closer as the dog indicated ... step by step ...

This is exactly how desensitizing works.

Some folks use a neutral stable dog ... some use a dog park but don't enter it (staying outside the fence, not at the entrance area) .... some go to a regular park where all dogs are leashed and sit on the sidelines as you did ....

You did great by keeping your dog outside his circle of reactivity and allowing that circle to get smaller gradually, based on your individual dog.

Carol. thank you, he is so handsome and I am so in love with him - he is getting a bit better but it's an ongoing process.

Teething - ohhhh hell yeah - chomp chomp and to boot his baby teeth aren't falling out yet so it's double the pain IMO. My hands and arms are all interesting holes and scratches .. the Heiland tattoo I call it (grin)

What he started yesterday and today was barking at anyone that came near our car .. dang I am near deaf .. getting stuck in traffic with his deep guttural growl and bark wasn't fun .. I finally fed the leash through to where I could give him a pop and it worked after the first pop - before he would stop barking when I just said quiet in a firm voice .. hopefully saying quiet and just having the leash in my hand will work but he knows the quiet command so a little pop might have to be done a few more time but if anyone has a better suggestion, bring it on please.

He is far from perfect but getting better every day. I just got the nose work video and the kit so once I digest it and understand it I am going to have some fun with him.

I already hide his food outside all over the heavy equipment and he loves that game .. won't stop until I tell him he found them all lol.

Connie is Heiland's and Ceilidh's angel - many a rash & pudding poop has been cleared up by listening to her. Thank you Connie

Edited by Maggie MacDonald (07/05/2013 09:06 PM)
Edit reason: clarity