Lisabet, you obviously know what you're talking about and seem very familiar with this type of injury. Your words almost exactly emanated what this vet was saying and what has been my experience so far.

She really didn't go too much into any possible regression which actually has me a bit scared right now because of how it seems to be coming back but that makes a lot of sense, now that the prednisone is out of his system completely.

I have the MSM and chondroitin and glucosamine and a bunch of other stuff. I would like to start him on something if it will help but have been leery to give him anything because of the heavy antibiotics and powerful drug he was on. I want to keep it simple so his organs don't get damaged throughout this ordeal.

She did say if there was any regression though, she wanted to get him back on the prednisone right away. I don't know much about inflammation but have heard that it's often there for a reason, and not necessarily a bad one. Geeze, sometimes I wish I had a medical degree. It's so hard to know what to do in these situations.

She hasn't called me back yet but I really want to thank you guys. You've given me a lot of food for thought and some great approaches to discuss with her.

What if she does say prednisone again, which I'm almost sure she will based on our last discussion. Do we go the hard and fast route or do I take a stand with a more holistic approach. And would that be offensive to a medical professional. I suppose everyone is different and she would have her own opinions, but I wonder what would be in Vince's best interest.

Oh and Tracey,how intuitive are you. We have a wood burning stove that throws of a tremendous amount of heat, near the floor in this one spot. Vince usually runs quite hot and has his cool spot at the other end of the house, that he's welcome to retreat to at any time and usually does in the winter when we've got it blazing hot in here.

These last few weeks he's been positioning himself right in front of the wood stove, where this lower heat radiates on his back. His back gets really hot to the touch. I don't know how he can stand it sometimes. But of course, this totally explains what he's doing.

With my lack of thought in that regard, I would say he's kind of made his own heated sheepskin pad. Where do I get one of these?

If you get one for people rather than dogs, you will get one in any good chemist or department store, and they aren't too expensive because they aren't huge, more for placing on the specific area you have the pain, and unless Vince is going to start chewing through the cord, you will prob pay a lot less than going through an animal site/store!

Another thought occurred to me but it maybe isn't suitable for dogs, but what about a canine type of T.E.N.S machine??

ps, I don't think the gluc/chon/msm would have any contra-indications with any meds...

Edited by tracey holden (02/12/2012 12:48 PM)
Edit reason: ps

I will check out our drug stores. I'm sure he'd be much happier with the centralized heat rather than having to warm his whole body up like he's been doing. What great insight, thank you for that.

And sorry, no idea what T.E.N.S. is.

And yes, I'm going to talk to the vet about the MSM and other more natural drugs, just in case she knows of any kind of reactions. Being a structural type doctor, I would think she knows about them.

Hi CJ,

I wouldn't call what you are observing at the moment as actual "regression" just yet. Just like when you or I take pain killers, it allows us to do things that might otherwise be too difficult or painful, but once we clear those drugs from the system, you get a better read of how much actual healing has occurred and how much of the incapacity or injury has been masked by the meds.

If your vet recommends another round of the Prednisone I personally would go that route because although inflammation is a natural response to injury it also sets up further problems and you want to reduce it as soon as possible especially where inflammation is causing neural issues.

We are so accustomed to thinking of surgery or meds as the only way of resolving problems and indeed sometimes they are, but I have learned that spinal issues will and do resolve but very slowly. There may be some residual incapacity, for example some slight loss of feeling due to early nerve damage, but the come back is nothing short of astonishing. Any holistic approaches that you can add into the equation will only help. Acupuncture, laser, massage if appropriate, motion will all improve blood and lymphatic flow and so aids the healing process and may lessen discomfort and reduce healing time. Some of the methods will seem better to you than others; you may find a particularly good practitioner in one field near you that you are happy to work with. Most medical practitioners are now very open to many of these treatments and some practices have vets that are also certified in acupuncture or massage for example. Sometimes the injury makes it difficult for either of these methods to be used- the area being too sensitive...this is where the laser might be helpful.

I just got hold of a reference for canine massage you could check out through Amazon. It is called "Canine Massage: A complete reference manual" by Jean-Pierre Hourdebaight.

The MSM can occasionally cause some diarrhoea but the glucosamine & chondroitin should be fine. For Vince you are probably looking at around 1g/day MSM and 250mgs of the other two. All three should be ok to use with Prednisone. For the MSM start with a lower dose and build up gradually to avoid diarrhoea, but do mention it to the vet.

Heated sheep skin pad...what a great idea...I have seen heated therapeutic beds on sale..I am sure that a visit to a medical/homecare equipment store/online might give other ideas too!

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=tens%20machine&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CIQBEBYwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTranscutaneous_electrical_nerve_stimulation&ei=ABs4T4urO9O3hAeBgbH_AQ&usg=AFQjCNED7tETgQogJd81Omvd6a0_61lAYA

 Quote: CJ Barrett

We have a wood burning stove that throws of a tremendous amount of heat, near the floor in this one spot. Vince usually runs quite hot and has his cool spot at the other end of the house, that he's welcome to retreat to at any time and usually does in the winter when we've got it blazing hot in here.

These last few weeks he's been positioning himself right in front of the wood stove, where this lower heat radiates on his back. His back gets really hot to the touch. I don't know how he can stand it sometimes. But of course, this totally explains what he's doing.

With my lack of thought in that regard, I would say he's kind of made his own heated sheepskin pad. Where do I get one of these?

Do you know about these?

http://leerburg.com/742.htm (They come with a shearling-type cover.)

Click on "customer reviews." Mine starts "July 2, 2008 .... I won one of those heated mats in an auction, for my lil old arthritic dysplastic adopted senior."

CJ,
I have a tough time being patient with the healing process and am even worse when it comes to restricting Thor's activity. I also prefer a more holistic approach when possible but sometimes, it's not the best option.

I would not hesitate on a 2nd round of prednisone if it is suggested, especially where he did well the first time.

Ah, the more difficult part....activity restriction. If you are like me, seeing how detrimental the restriction is to Vince's mental well being makes me think poor Vince if he wants to run that much, its probably not that bad for him, so you let him off leash, he is so happy and appears to be free of pain until of course he is no longer in drive and running, then the old symptoms reappear and of course you dedicate yourself to restricting his activity but alas a forlorned Vince gets to you again..... (out of kindness just agree with me so I don't have to be pathetic on my own )

A couple of things which have helped me stay with the restrictions are breaking down the timeframe; I don't look at restricted for a month....I think restricted for today.

It is much easier when leashed walks are approved and if they are, I break them down to 3 times a day for 1/2 hour and try to walk places we have never walked before; seems to use up some of his energy checking out new environments as well as more attuned to sniffing than running. Also I throw a few minutes of training into each walk at the end to leave him thinking. Finally I try to time the last walk to coincide with feeding dinner which signals the end of day which helps him settle easier.

If completely restricted to bathroom walks only.....I cry. Not really, we just go for lots of car rides.

One last thing, never underestimate the dog's ability to know what works to get what he wants. He very likely isn't half as miserable as he appears when he's looking to get a lot more freedom. Even knowing this I am still a sucker for Thor's patheticness. Goodluck!

Give him the prednisilone. It made him feel better, allows the physical therapy, gives him appetite, improves his attitude.
LONG TERM steroid is not a week here, a week there. LONG TERM steroid is a problem.
Short term, these medicines are magic.
I would not withhold it based on possible side effects that may never occur.

Lisabet, I really like the way you put that. You're entire post completely resonated with me. And quite frankly, eased a lot of my worry.

You are so right, I am using the terminology incorrectly. Once you pointed that out my memory went back to those first few day when he could barely walk. He is nowhere near that now. There has been a lot of healing; it's just not what it was when it was "masked". And your proactive approach to the reduction of inflammation is just so understandable. Exactly what I needed to hear.

Your agreement to go with the prednisone is also so very much appreciated.

We just got back from a "flat" mountain walk where hubby and I discussed this in a lot of detail. He's actually quite a holistic type guy himself and will choose natural remedies every time. As far as this decision for another round of prednisone, we couldn't really come to any conclusion and he finally said he'll leave it up to me to make the decision, if that's what she recommends. Either way, he'll support what I decide. Didn't really help much in the end.

I just had him come and read your post. We are now both in agreement that this is the nudge over the fence we needed. Such great information put together in such an understandable way. Thank you.

And Sheila, you are just totally in my head. Gosh it's nice to have good company.

And yes, pathetic is definitely the word for it. Totally in agreement. Can you see me hanging my head with guilt but feeling almost helpless to do anything about it?

I'm a pretty strong person but this high drive boy has me feeling so weak to his powers of persuasion. He has a way with mind over matter and its full speed down his highway or no way. Not quite but pretty much.

He sure is nice and relaxed now, his back up against the warm radiating heat. He's totally taking care of himself where I have been lacking. Gosh, and he's just got the most wonderful soul. Such a trooper through all this, really incredibly pleasant. I know he's got to be in a certain amount of pain but he's just not showing it to me, other than this lack of full function in his back end.

And really good reality check on the prednisone too. You guys have really helped me with this one. I will go with the prescription should this be what she recommends.

As simple as it sounds (doctor says do this, do it) I hate going into these things blindly knowing there may be other options out there. But sometimes Dr's do know best and that's all I want for him. Thank you Sheila, I really appreciate the way you put that as well.

You guys truly are invaluable; I hope you all know that.

I'm going to check out those links now.

ETA: Thank you Dr. Betty. I couldn't be happier for your endorsement!! That's the magic number 3. We will happily accept her perscription, no arguements here. And you're right, he did feel so much better on it. I really appreciate your definition of "Short Term", it makes it sound that much safer.

Edited by CJ Barrett (02/12/2012 08:10 PM)
Edit reason: Dr. Betty posted at the same time

Oh CJ my heart really goes out to you and Vince!

Sheila's suggestion of looking at the restrictions one day at a time is a great way to get through this period.

One more suggestion too- you might try to keep a little journal of progress and a photo of Vince each week, just to remind yourself of how far you have come already!