old earth,
i'm sure ed would tell you to fully develop the dog's bite before going onto muzzle work. that involves teaching leg bites, leg to arm transfers, as well as a full assortment of upper body bites (back, shoulder, front armpit, etc.) so bite suit work should come before muzzle.

to quote donn yarnall...."Never “just see” what the dog will do."

training the dog properly in the aforementioned way won't lead to problems when you do start doing muzzle work as far as the dogs view of people.

Phil,
A fairly popular training approach in laying the foundation in bitework for schutzhund involves a helper building a pup's prey drive very early with a lot of rag/tug work to stimulate the dog in prey and to developing grip, striking and other biting skills. While that can be very useful in terms of correctness required in the sport, I think the downside is that the foundation is layed for the pup to see the bitework as playing a game with the helper. This approach can also contribute to the dog becoming too equipment oriented. I believe the same is true regarding all the repetition required in order for the mature dog to look polished in a schH trial. Genetics will always be a factor, with high prey being easy to find and strong aggression less common. You might be better off laying the early foundation yourself (with a pup) to build your dog's drive and grip and then wait for some maturity to test him out to see if he has some seriousness. Selecting the right dog/pup will be the biggest factor.

At club we are starting 2 young ones this week on basics of muzzle work. They are being switched over from the sleeve , because the handlers dont want them to fixated on the equipment. Basic civil work has been started also at this time. In my opinon these dogs bite very well, calm and come in with no hesitiation so I dont think the suit and target bites will be an issue with either, but I am newbie.

Brad, if I may offer a suggestion? ( which you may already have done, in which case...never mind.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

You can ease the transition into muzzle work by doing standard obedience work with the dog in the muzzle for about two weeks before you start actual muzzle agitation. Most dogs fight the muzzle at least a bit when it's first put on, so doing the obedience work first cuts the stress down.
You'll get a better idea of the dog's initial ability against the decoy by doing the muzzle ob work for the previous weeks before he's introduced to the muzzle fighting work, it'll help you in your overall view of the dog's temperament.
Just my two cents worth...

To add a bit to Will's post...

The dog should view the muzzle with total indifference. Socialize him to it by putting treats in there, and prolonging the time the dog keeps his head in the muzzle, moving on to tieing the straps and feeding treats THROUGH the muzzle. Then take the dog for walks with it. In my view the dog should NEVER associate the muzzle with either obedience or bitework...it should see the muzzle much like a bycicle: something that can bring on some fun. It should view the muzzle as a predictor of walks, light obedience and treats. There's WAAAY enough time for pressure later on.

When the dog is ABUNDANTLY socialized (months) to the muzzle is when I begin muzzle work. By this time the dog is nearing maturity, has his bite VERY WELL developed, has control, and I already know if the dog likes fighting or not.

+ $0.02

I agree with Andres and I would suggest you continue that type of non-aggression muzzle training into adulthood with your dog .

Often times handlers put alot of work into acclimating their K9's to accept the muzzle and once that's done the majority of their training with it is in aggression . The muzzle is just as prone to equipment fixation as sleeves , suits , etc . . If you are going to use the muzzle mix your training up .

I do about 70 % non aggression related muzzle training to 30 % aggression related muzzle training . This is dependant on the dog though . To this day with my 6 year old PSD , I do alot of my muzzle training like Andres described . Light OB , walks , tracks , or just hanging out with the dog occasionally giving him treats through the muzzle . I also continue to have him wear the muzzle at different times for different lengths of time . I'll drive around in the squad with him wearing it or put it on him while he's in the yard or kennel . I would monitor him though since there's a chance the muzzle could get caught up on something .

I try to balance these types of muzzle training in order to get the dog to view the muzzle like the collar he wears . My goal is to get the dog to not assume anything is coming . It's just a piece of equipment he's supposed to wear from time to time . Sometimes fun things happen sometimes nothing happens . He just never knows .

HEy Phil,
Talk to your Sch. training director and let him know what you want to do with the dog. I know my Sch. TD will train each dog differently depending on what that person wants the finished product to be.

Thanks Will
My dog is no where near that point. I am awaiting my muzzle , somewhere between me and quebec in the mail <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. I'll start the garlic hotdog climatization and marker training once it arrives.
The other club members are phasing into muzzle , agitation work and I am anxious to learn and help. I am on the fence with my Mal and her bitework <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> On the plus side she loves her new toy; tire innertube hung from the tree. Good luck to all

Tell me about garlic hotdogs please. Might be what I am looking for. Thanks

Roger:
Just hotdogs cut in thin slices and coated with garlic powder. I used them from 9 weeks on , but now I am transitioning to verbal praise, and toy rewards.