So if I was impressed by that video it means that watching your dogs work would just blow my mind, right Will? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the expert eval for those of us who have never seen working dogs at all but are interested in learning whatever they can.

Well, *most* of my dogs would work better than that, but I do offer lower trained dogs ( for a lower price ) that would have drives like the dogs shown in that video.

And truthfully, a lot of prospective owners like lower drive dogs - they say that they want a ppd, but in truth *many* owners will not make the life style changes or take the responsibility for owning/ managing a ppd, so they get what I call a "poser" dog for their own ego from some fly-by-night ppd wannabe.
The owner isn't much safer with those type of dogs but they can brag to their friends..."yeah, he's a real man stopper.." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I won't take part of business like that - for an example, I won't sell a ppd to someone that doesn't own a gun. To me, if a client won't take the responsibility of owning a firearm to enhance their personal protection, they don't need a dog form me, period.

On a positive note it was a well done video with a lot of different types of scenarios. However, given the amount of training that they seem to be doing and it does look like they are putting in the training time the scenarios don't represent real life situations to me. Dogs being masters of association have the whole deal already worked out.

I guess what I would be comfortable with as a ppd would look a little different. There may be some real manstoppers in that group but certainly you would want to see more than staged situations. There is a shot of a guy half way over the fence with his leg draped over the fence. The dog passes the leg to get to the sleave. I wouldn't dream of being the decoy in that situation with a ppd that had been exposed to more true to life training. Also, the run aways with the bite coat and no bite pants looks very "sporty" to me. I wouldn't dream of doing that with any of the psd's that I work with. I know that we're talking about ppd's but wouldn't you want your ppd to be on par with a psd a least as far as protection goes?

I would agree that from just taking the video on face value that the dogs are adequate but not great or spectacular PP Dogs. There is no question that the sleeve was presented and most if not all of the dogs were mouthy to some degree. I suspect (but don’t know) that the dogs were working with helpers that were known to them and in scenarios that they had seen before, all this while being filmed. It would be hard to do the marketing video any other way and insure the safety of the helpers. If you take the video in the context of a marketing video produced for the general public it was nicely done.

I may be missing something but it looked to me that in most of the setups the dogs were working in prey drive, so it was just a game to them. All protection training will do is increase the chance that your dog will respond properly when faced with a given situation, until it actually happens you will never know 100% for sure. This is the sort of thing I do with my adult dogs mixing in new helpers, new bite suites and strangers for civil work. From my limited experience, the only time I see real fight drive type aggression is when the dog is surprised with a new helper, equipment and the dog has no idea that a training session is going to take place. It’s difficult to do that sort of thing very often and probably not a good idea to do it very often either. Personally I need to know for myself at what point a dog will show signs of avoidance so I can conduct myself appropriately if the need to use the dog arises.

The work they did, barking as a deterrent, biting an intruder and protecting on the street will fit the bill for most people. Most people just don’t have the need for much more than a bark and hold dog. In the end, all a PP dog will do is, give you an extra set of eyes, ears and nose to buy you time to deal with the threat yourself by running away, calling the police or getting a weapon. Having trained dogs can buy you the time to prevent a situation where you or your family is hurt or killed. I for one hope that it never comes down to actually having to use my dogs for protection.

I agree on a lot of the points made but I find it interesting how all the dogs were sitting crooked in this "so called PP dog" simulation video. The position of the dog by the sleeve is typical in the sport especially with a prey monster dog who wants to bite the sleeve and nothing more.

Several of the dogs were fed the sleeve. Especially the car jacking scenario where the guy runs towards the car, the dog presents itself and the guy still shoves his arm in the window. COME ON!!! Then the sleeve was supposedly a hidden arm but looks like it was a regular sleeve covered with clothing. I could see the cuff myself. Surely a sleeve happy dog would. COME ON BUDDY, LET'S PLAY! YIPPEE!!!

I'm sure the videos could have been staged a little different if these were serious serious dogs for the work they say they are for.

He video would be great for marketing SchH training because some of the flashy dogs and prey monsters would have probably generated a sale or two.

But all said and done, in a world were a fool is born every minute, that guy probably has a client list bigger than a Sears catalog filled with folks hoping (and hopefully praying) that the dogs they purchase would protect them in a real life UNSTAGED event.

There's my 2 cents.

1) the video sais that they are all imported dogs with schz titles. Translated a dog that has some training but isn't good enough thus sold.
2) Only carefull selection over generations gives good working dogs. In this video are some dogs from "show/pet breeds". I have my doubts about thier capacities
3) The kids have to be included. Kids and dogs don't mix. (don't trust the kids)
4) to much show in the video and not enough work.

My opinion may be a bit harch but than again my stadards are those off BR

Greetings


Johan

 Quote:

) The kids have to be included. Kids and dogs don't mix. (don't trust the kids

Just curious, Does everyone think that a PPD shouldn't be around children?
Aren't a lot of families buying these dogs have children?
Confused. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

My personal view is that there is nothing wrong with it provided the owner has half a brain. No dog should ever be left with a child unsupervised and if this is followed there should be no issue.

I don't know what the pro's think of this situation tho.

John

I think of a PPD as a weapon(just like a gun). Would you leave a loaded gun on a table etc. for a child to have access to? I think not! PPD are weapons for what?PERSONAL PROTECTION! You should never leave a child unattended with any dog.I don't think most people are aware of what a PPD really is and they don't respect the dog for what it is. It's not Spot for crying out loud <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I am not asking if the child should be left alone with the dog. I want to know if a PPD can live in the home with kids, not out in a kennel or crate for most of the day but in the home all the time with the family while the child is doing normal kid stuff like running around and playing.

 Quote:

think of a PPD as a weapon(just like a gun). Would you leave a loaded gun on a table etc. for a child to have access to? I think not! PPD are weapons for what?PERSONAL PROTECTION! You should never leave a child unattended with any dog.I don't think most people are aware of what a PPD really is and they don't respect the dog for what it is. It's not Spot for crying out loud