Hi Jenni. I believe Robert's right. I've seen alot of sables with or without the penciling that carry or don't carry the bleck gene. Knowing which traits are dominant in the agouti locus, and examining the colors of other dogs in the pedigree, and the progeny below while taking into account what color its bred with, is the only way I know for sure how to determine it's genotype (outside of a gene testing lab).
The arm bars, tar heels, & toe penciling are not actually determined in the agouti locus, but another chromosome location, like melanistic red is. These traits are not a simle "have it or don't". They vary by degrees (arm bars only halfway down the leg, red only around the head area). Horses have a similar "dun factor" with a dark stripe along the spine, shoulder stripe, but a solid black horse is always considered to have the dun-factor.
I should've been clearer: I of course know that not all dogs who have the black recessive will have any outward signs. I was just wondering if it's everyone's experience that dogs with these markings DO (usually) happen to carry the black recessive. Really, it was just a simple curiosity thing to see how many people's experience concurred with that statement. Does anyone find it to be a repeated coincidence then? Any indication at all? I had never heard this until recently, and have since read it a few times, but not from any place I'd deem "bulletproof." It was on a site about coated dogs, I think. There are lots of crazy ideas out there about genetics... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. People are so sure I'm lying when I say neither of Caleb's parents are black.
I think that's what makes it so intresting. Genetics is a frontier science, there's always something new to learn that was unheard of yesterday. And full of surprises that even the best imagination could not expect.
Exactly, I love studying genetics. My female Diesel is black recessive, though she has no markings as some people would think she should carry. Yet she had sable, bicolors and solid blacks.
So, for you breeders: The question is not whether black recessives carry markings. The question is whether it's your experience that the dogs that DO CARRY the markings ALSO HAPPEN TO CARRY the black recessive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> This could apply to any recessive gene. I am just curious whether there are certain indicators-NOT IF THEY'RE PRESENT ALL THE TIME. Obviously a coated dog carries that gene; but so could it's stock-coated siblings, right? So, are there any markings that seem to only occur on dogs who you know for a fact carry the black recessive or any other recessive? Kind of like a Farmer's Almanac type of thing? Just long time experience? Something that's 80-90% accurate?
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
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