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What a bunch of Mickey Mouse BS.....

Hey I take offense to that, I live like 5 minutes from Disney, he's my buddy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Man.....I can just guess what European's like Johan who compete in a *very* tough sport like Belgian Ring must think about videos from these Mickey Mouse pseudo/phony dog sports....

And the posers from the PPDA actually help illustrate the different paths that people have taken when organizing a new dog sport in the U.S.

The alternative protection sports in the U.S pretty much fall into the following categories:

The first group of people are those that are looking for a more intense challenge or are bored with SchH ( I think that many of us would have gone onto BR or KNPV but those sports just aren't very available in the U.S. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ). I put both PSA and ASR in that category.

The second group are primarily made up of sub-standard trainers that couldn't even title a dog in SchH, so they have made up a pseudo sport that is *very* easy to achieve a title in. The title isn't recognized anywhere, but allows to "trainers" to fool themselves into thinking they accomplished something. The bogus titles are also useful into fooling prospective dog buyers into thinking they're buying a titled dog. Bogus, bogus, bogus....

And the last group is those that have invented a dog sport strictly to make money. The sport is also very easy to get a title in and will draw those that can't cut the mustard as a real handlers. But the main point of these sports is to make money for their founder and a few core members of the sport. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Canis Panther....

So is that a half dog, half cat? A DogCat?

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I think that many of us would have gone onto BR or KNPV but those sports just aren't very available in the U.S. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Not readily available? Or not at all available? I've never heard of "KNPV of America"... KNPV is my alltime favorite sport, if I lived in Holland I would be training my pup for KNPV, but I've gotten to really like ASR over the last few months especially <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Is there anyone in the US that trains for KNPV? And I mean trains/titles in the US... not train here, then fly to Holland to trial... although, that's not a bad idea <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In fact, that brings me to another question -- if you have an ASR1 or ASR2 dog -- how difficult/what additional training would you say is required to title your ASR dog in KNPV? Would an ASR1 dog cut it as a PH1 dog if you trained the additional exercises (if there are any?), or would a PH1 be equal to something more intense like an ASR2? Would it be better to train for the KNPV exercises, then trial in ASR, or train the ASR exercises then train the additional exercises later for KNPV (such as the object guard/bicycle attack etc)?

I know this is going off topic a lil, I'll start a new thread with these questions if you prefer.

In my opinion, there is not really a strong correlation between having a PH1 dog and success in ASR. I don't think you can say a PH1 is equivalent to an ASR1 or 2. It is a totally different system altogether. And, I am not taking anything at all aways from PH dogs, as they are very nice. But, it is maybe not apples and oranges, but certainly oranges and tangerines. ASR is a unique system in and of itself and I would not be the slightest bit surprised to see a PH1 or 2 for that matter not succeed in ASR.

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I would not be the slightest bit surprised to see a PH1 or 2 for that matter not succeed in ASR.

How about vice versa? Do you think an ASR dog could succeed in KNPV? Or are these sports so far apart that you're not gonna be able to train for both?

I don't really know if the converse is true. I am not super familiar with KNPV to be able to tell you. I certainly will say, though, that (even though I compete with a Rottweiler) Mals are the dogs of choice in ASR with the best liklihood of success. And, amongst the Mals of the world, PH1's and 2's are very desirable. But, certainly just because a dog is a PH1 does not mean he/she will even attain an entry level title in ASR.

I'd like to compete in ASR with my Dutch Shepherd pup, she shows alot of promise at 14 weeks of age, I think she'll do well in ASR. At some point I'd like to go to Holland with both my dogs and meet all the people who helped me out, I thought it might be kinda neat to title her in KNPV in Holland if the time is right for it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm just not sure if it's even possible to train a dog for 2 sports. Heck, if she can title well in ASR, then with additional training scrape by in KNPV with a minimum passing score I'd be excited <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> But it's just a thought, at 14 weeks her job is biting everything in sight, socialize n watch the big dogs do their work on the field <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mike,
Paul Horton helped bring KNPV here many years ago, and there is a long story about why it collapsed (not any of his fault) but as of today the KNPV administration have zero desire to set up outside of holland.
~CHRIS DUHON

In fact, the KNPV closed their doors to anyone not Dutch.