Scott, if you're bound & determined to adopt this particular Akita, I would email Ed Frawley directly with your questions & even ask if you could set up a personal telephone consultation with him BEFORE getting that dog -- Reading your posts, I see a number of Red Flags which escpecially concern me for your wife's safety in handling this Akita...

No one is implying that you're unintelligent (rather naive regarding the potential dangers of strangers handling a truly dominant and/or aggressive adult male Akita, perhaps...) but a few days or weeks of cramming head-knowledge on this complex subject is precious little foundation to equip anyone for dealing with the considerable difficulties inherent in a scenario such as you describe here, IMHO

I appreciate your words of caution. Both my wife and I are EMTs with 15 and 8 years of street experience. We have no desire to become another dog mauling casualty, and we've seen plenty of that, among other things. We just don't feel that way around this dog.

Just to clarify, the current owners have an 18 month old boy and another on the way, it's Tonka who's 4. We saw him interact with the boy and he was as gentle as could be. Could they be hiding some bad behavior from us? It's possible but it appears unlikely. They strike us as being a very responsible couple who would not pawn off a behavioral problem, especially a dangerous one.

What little aggression there has been so far seems to be of the "Who's the boss?" variety and fleeting at that. It's too bad I dwelled on all the "bad stuff" in my first post. There is so much good stuff, too. He is incredibly calm and willing with us given that there really isn't a bond yet. The best and funniest thing so far happened when we were paying the bill at the vet. Tonka was in down, minding his own business, when my wife broke a fingernail. She proceeded to make the usual stereotypical exclamations and inspect her hand. Tonka was immediately up and turned on, licking and inspecting her hand to make sure she was OK. It was the first time he was protective torwards either of us. He got lots of praise, and it's all the more remarkable since we were the ones who had just brought him to the dreaded "thermometer up the butt"!

Now that I think of it there may have been some bonding as well. My wife was walking him around and showing him our land later that afternoon and I asked her to stop so I could take some photos. Tonka immediately got the "leans". Here he is leaning on her




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So, his owners are re-homing this Akita because he needs more attention than their time constraints will allow (?) Okay...

For what they're worth, here are a few observations:

Leaning on and/or demanding attention from people is often a dominant behavior in dogs who imagine they rank higher than the human in question (but this may not always be the case) -- Caregiving behaviors, especially "baby-sitting" young children & attending to sick or injured persons are typically endearing Akita traits...

Just be very aware that many adult dominant dogs in general (and specifically full-grown "alpha" male Akitas who show ANY aggression) often may become handler-aggressive when given strong corrections on a prong & frequently cannot be FORCED to obey commands from a stranger in an unfamiliar environment...

What this dog does for you willingly is ONE thing, but managing him when he refuses your direction MAY be another thing entirely, so please use sensible precautions in handling him, and take training lessons slow & easy <:-)

If you don't already have EF's "Dealing With Dominant & Aggressive Dogs" DVD, I would special order it over-nighted ASAP.

Tonka is a very pretty dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I noticed the prong collar isn't in the proper position. Make sure it rides high on the neck, under the jaw and just behind the ears. That way a small correction goes a much longer way than a heavy jerk.

You've received good advice. Whenever people give up a dog, ESPECIALLY given the reasons they had, it is wise to assume that they are hiding an aggressive behavior, notably one directed at their child. It could be that they truly wanted best for the dog and felt they didn't have the necessary time to devote, but it's always safer to assume the worst than assume the best and in reality encounter the worst.

Do not let your child interact with your dog unsupervised, even for a second. During supervised interactions it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep the dog on a short leash. There must be no question in the dog's mind that you are a firm, fair leader that controls every aspect of his life! Best of luck, and keep reading and researching.

The Traurigs don't have any children, but AMEN to the rest of your advice -- Always better to be safe than sorry!

Whoops sorry! Got confused with all the talk of children. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Well if anyone else is in a similar situation and they have kids, then it'll apply to them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yup, no kids!

+1 on what you said, Candi, about when he refuses. I hope that rarely happens, and right now there appears to be no reason that we'll ever have to give him a strong correction except for handler aggressivness. I don't want to force him to do anything until he is bonded with us. I don't want to force him to do anything, ever. He is very food motivated, so I can use that I hope.

This whole safety issue is why we made sure to make some time to be with him by ourselves. We wanted to see if he was going to be scary and intractable. So far the answer is no. But obviously it's still possible he might not settle into his new environment and we probably haven't seen his true personality yet, so time will tell. No risk, no reward.

It's very interesting that leaning may be considered a dominant behavior. I would have thought it was more an expression of bonding. A very good tip, I'll keep an eye on that. That's the kind of tip or trick I'm looking for here.

Diana, I agree on the collar. That's the way Tonka was supplied to us that day and they got the collar and the fit from their original trainer. Once he's with us I can decide if I want to add a link so it can ride higher (it won't with the current number of links) or even buy the next lighter version with more links.

On the lighter side, what kind of play do you think I should initiate (if any, I don't want to violate the whole new dominant dog protocol) with him to keep him happy and interested the first few days?

Thanks,

Scott

Scott.....
I think it is great that you are giving Tonka a chance at a home. I guess my only question is, "What will happen to Tonka if you are not able to control him or if he bites someone?"

I do have alot of respect for you for joining this site and asking for advice on how to handle him and what types of training methods you should be using. I do agree that some of your questions should be sent to Ed and that ordering the "Dealing with a Dominant Dog" DVD would be a great addition to your training program.

Good luck and keep us posted on progress.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

NO play the first 2 weeks at all, Scott -- Have you had a chance to read through ALL of Ed's articles about Dominance & Aggression on the Leerburg website yet ??? You might even want to download & print them out for easy access (!)

That will save me & others from having to answer a lot of questions one-by-one, LOL -- Also, you need a few LESS links on that prong, not more of them, to make it smaller for a proper fit (and, BTW, giving a strong correction with the prong FOR handler-aggression is exactly what may trigger an attack!)...

Please do get this DVD immediately:

http://www.leerburg.com/301.htm

I could save you a trip to the ER, and save this Akita from being put to sleep <:-)

 Quote:

NO play the first 2 weeks at all, Scott -- Have you had a chance to read through ALL of Ed's articles about Dominance & Aggression on the Leerburg website yet ??? You might even want to download & print them out for easy access (!)

That will save me & others from having to answer a lot of questions one-by-one, LOL -- Also, you need a few LESS links on that prong, not more of them, to make it smaller for a proper fit (and, BTW, giving a strong correction with the prong FOR handler-aggression is exactly what may trigger an attack!)...

Please do get this DVD immediately:

http://www.leerburg.com/301.htm

I could save you a trip to the ER, and save this Akita from being put to sleep <:-)

Agreed! I got the DVD in a few weeks ago so I could get another perspective on dealing with dominant and aggressive dogs I try to help at the shelter I volunteer and foster for and it has been helpful to supplement what I can read in a book with a visual.

And yes, about the prong collar, take a link or two out! I am not a super horse woman or anything, but prong collars are kind of analogous to a curb bit on a horse that for whatever reason, doesn't respond to a simpler snaffle. If all you do is jerk jerk jerk with the prong collar too low, the dog's neck will probably go numb (just like a horse's mouth if you misuse a curb bit) and the correction won't be as profound. If it's fitted right and a bit of training, an 80 year old woman could control a 200 lbs mastiff with a feather touch on a properly fitted prong collar.