Quote:

I don’t want to start an argument but the fact is the majority of KNPV dogs are prey drive and trained in prey. In fact these dogs have EXTREME PREY and that’s the drive they work in - the training is extreme but the work is still prey work.

I have gone to Holland for many many years and been at many many clubs - the people are great - they train very hard and often - the dogs are for the most part good - but the training is prey. For those who claim differently all I can say is they need more experience working with police service dogs that work in fight drive or defense.

The fact is the KNPV is a dog sport - pure an simple - no different than Schutzhund is a dog sport.

A husband as TD for a policedepartment, twice in the KNPV championship, a father who was militairy TD, 6 times in KNPV championship, from wich 5 times champion or second after a clubmate, in the same timeperiod several times IPO dutch champion and a mother who´s dutch IPO Champion & world champion IPO, enough dog- and (police/militairy)training experience & knowledge?????????

Besides videoing it, did you ever trained and certiftied a KNPV dog?

*Mod Edit*

Save the sarcastic comments, please.

Will Rambeau
Moderator

Selena:

did you personally ever train and title a KNPV dog? If you did, congratulations.

Why don't you explain why what other drives are critical to a good KNPV dog and training for KNPV.

I believe some of these dutch malinois are renowned for fight drive (something I don't pretend to understand). If this is so, why is this?

rgds, andrew may

A husband as TD for a policedepartment, twice in the KNPV championship, a father who was militairy TD, 6 times in KNPV championship, from wich 5 times champion or second after a clubmate, in the same timeperiod several times IPO dutch champion and a mother who´s dutch IPO Champion & world champion IPO, enough dog- and (police/militairy)training experience & knowledge?????????

Besides videoing it, did you ever trained and certiftied a KNPV dog?

Okay Andres, I can't pass this up...so I guess we can ascertain from your current post that you now know everything. After all, you haven't posted any questions/info about working dogs on this forum lately <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />! Stick around and you might learn something about diets <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Seleena, How fortunate you are to be surrounded by so many wonderful working dogs and to grow up with parents that trained dogs and now have a spouse that is a well respected handler/trainer/policeman. You have much knowledge to share with others! I will look forward to reading more of your informative posts asI am here to learn.

Best regards,
Debbie

*Mod Edit*

If you're not happy on this forum, save your comments then. Just coming on to make multiple sarcastic remarks adds nothing to the forum - yet you're complaining that there's not enough discussion about dog training going on.
Rather ironic....

Will Rambeau
Moderator

Ed,
Your right, it is SPECTACULAR and I look forward to seeing more of it. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This will be Mr. Martins last post on our web board. I have blocked his posting rights. We (he and I) have a fundamental difference in our views of a web board.

My view is to provide good solid information based on 45 years of experience in owning and training dogs. I see my role ( and my moderators role) on the board as being a filter to point out incorrect and bad information based on our experience.

Mr. Martin sees a board as a place to debate opinions on training.

I have a habit of telling people that "EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION ON HOW TO TRAIN A DOG - THE PROBLEM IS MOST PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE NECESSARY TO OFFER GOOD TRAINING ADVICE AND THIS IS WHY THERE IS SO MUCH BAD INFORMATION FLOATING AROUND ON DOG TRAINING".

There are plenty of places on the internet where people (like Mr Martin) can post their opinions and be disrespectful to other board members. In the future Mr. Martin can offer advice on these other boards. The fact is he still has a lot to learn and he doesn’t even know it.

Gday,
I have been invloved in working dogs for a few years now. Without going into specifics I have had the opportunity to work service dogs, ScH dogs, and KNPV dogs. It appears to me that the drives the dogs work in comes down to the genetics of the dog and the training it is exposed to. Regardless of what style of work it is intended for. It is just an opinion. Some of the KNPV dogs (admittedly only a few in total) I worked were very real. Some were not. Same for the Sch dogs and unfortunately same for service dogs. The softest working dogs I have come across were in Sch. Although this is probably an unfair statement due to the fact that there is no KNPV sport in Australia. So all the KNPV dogs are trained imports. I would guess that people would take huge steps to ensure that the dogs they imported were at the very least impressive to watch work..

Anyway the real reason I posted is to offer a theory up for debate.....

Drives - are we to fast to categorise drives? If a dog will commit to a bite in a real time situation is the label we give his drive relevent? We have all most likely seen wolf documentaries where a pack of wolves takes a large prey down. During which there is a lot of growling etc. What "drive" are these dogs working in? Prey right (some may say fight). But is it serious work? Yes. Can a dog be seriously hurt? Yes. So can we train a dog to target a man using this same mindset/mood? If so would it be better to use this style of mood for bite training than going into an area that takes the dog down the path of uncertanty (Defence). Or indeed is this exactly what trainers are saying when they speak of fight drive? Hopefully something to discuss.

well...
I have no experience in working dogs.
But I have to say that is a spectacular video.

From what I understand of the comments.
alot of prey work is prefereed in sport
and more fight or defense is used in real world or police work?

I think thats right.

thanks for the video