Connie Sutherland wrote 09/08/2006 04:44 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Michael Sullivan ] #112899 - 09/08/2006 04:44 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: while on walks he's 10ft. or so ahead of me and keeps looking back to check if I'm still there...... Can I ask why he is 10 feet ahead of you on walks? This jumped out at me. If he is the pack leader in his perception, then yes, he will be anxious when you, his pack member, are not properly nearby. If he is the pack leader, then you're not supposed to be off doing stuff without him. This may not be the case at all, but with you following him on walks and him looking back to make sure you are doing so.......... there's a place, maybe, to start looking at why he has so much tension when you leave his side. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Michael Sullivan wrote 09/08/2006 05:00 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #112900 - 09/08/2006 05:00 PM
Michael Sullivan Webboard User Reg: 03-22-2006 Posts: 99 Loc: Illinois Offline	While on our walks,if I have him in heel he's right by my side where he should be ,otherwise I'm more relaxed with him and let him set his own pace.I've been told a GSD's natural pace is slightly faster than mine so I pretty much let him enjoy his walk as long as he stays within that distance,which he does.Should I not be doing this?As far as pack leader I also have a 10mos old I'm curently working with.Most of the time on walks I have the younger one in a heel while the older one is ahead.This is just how things turned out so if I should not be doing this please let me know.I'm confident I've established myself as the leader both at home and on walks but I could be wrong.Both dogs listen well to my commands.Thanks for the tips
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/08/2006 05:26 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Michael Sullivan ] #112901 - 09/08/2006 05:26 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: While on our walks,if I have him in heel he's right by my side where he should be ,otherwise I'm more relaxed with him and let him set his own pace.I've been told a GSD's natural pace is slightly faster than mine so I pretty much let him enjoy his walk as long as he stays within that distance,which he does.Should I not be doing this?As far as pack leader I also have a 10mos old I'm curently working with.Most of the time on walks I have the younger one in a heel while the older one is ahead.This is just how things turned out so if I should not be doing this please let me know.I'm confident I've established myself as the leader both at home and on walks but I could be wrong.Both dogs listen well to my commands.Thanks for the tips Well, I hope others will chime in here, but to me, walking with my dogs reinforces the pack structure. They are released often to sniff and wander and do dog stuff to the end of the lead, while I stand, but when we are walking, they are *not* leading me. They enjoy the walks and, as I say, they are released from heel often. Also, I don't mean a formal snappy marching heel on regular walks. I do mean, though, that they do not lead me. Maybe I put what seems to be a lot of emphasis on this. For me, going first out the door and in the door and always leading on walks are important pack leader actions. In fact, I learned a long time ago (at a seminar) to take a new dog for a walk before starting any training or, if he's my new dog, before entering the house with the dog. When I volunteer at a local shelter, I make it a point to precede the dog out the door when we head out for a walk, too. JMO! I am interested to read others' ideas about this.
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Michael Sullivan wrote 09/08/2006 05:41 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #112902 - 09/08/2006 05:41 PM
Michael Sullivan Webboard User Reg: 03-22-2006 Posts: 99 Loc: Illinois Offline	Connie, thanks a lot for the input.I do however have a question about that.My older guy has been trained off leash which is why I use the e-collar but if I don't want him to lead me then how can we walk without him being in a heel or behind me where I can't keep my eye on him.Being in front of me allows me to see his every move ie. body language or if he gets focused on something I can anticipate his reaction before he does.I understand entering and exiting first ,which is something I've never done but now see how important it is,but as far as walks I'm a little fuzzy here.I don't mean to split hairs I'm just trying to find the best way to go about this so our walks remain something they look foreward to.If I need to start retraining him I will.I don't want problems with the pup.Should I be walking them seperately?When being commanded to do something the older guy responds without hesitation.So I don't think OB is the issue.But any suggestions are welcomed.
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Beth Sparks wrote 09/08/2006 05:43 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #112903 - 09/08/2006 05:43 PM
Beth Sparks Webboard User Reg: 01-25-2006 Posts: 186 Loc: Offline	When we walk our 2 GSDs, we do just about like what Connie said. They get to sniff and do doggie deeds while we stand, but when we are walking they are beside us.
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Michael Sullivan wrote 09/08/2006 05:49 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Beth Sparks ] #112904 - 09/08/2006 05:49 PM
Michael Sullivan Webboard User Reg: 03-22-2006 Posts: 99 Loc: Illinois Offline	ok I don't mean to sound stupid here but beside you how? On the left in a heel or one on either side?If its one on either side won't that confuse them for the proper heel position which I think is on the left.And also does it matter which dog is on the outside if their both on the same side?I'm confused myself here but now you can see what I'm going through.As far as sniffing and doing doggy stuff I walk them around the blocks and don't allow them to walk on anyones grass or do their business while on our walks.I let them go before our walks and after.
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Beth Sparks wrote 09/08/2006 05:55 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Michael Sullivan ] #112905 - 09/08/2006 05:55 PM
Beth Sparks Webboard User Reg: 01-25-2006 Posts: 186 Loc: Offline	We walk ours on leash, on the left tight (by my side). By doggie stuff I don't mean "their business". Just investigation. We live in a rural area so its easier than in town!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/08/2006 05:58 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Michael Sullivan ] #112906 - 09/08/2006 05:58 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: .....My older guy has been trained off leash which is why I use the e-collar but if I don't want him to lead me then how can we walk without him being in a heel or behind me where I can't keep my eye on him.Being in front of me allows me to see his every move ie. body language or if he gets focused on something I can anticipate his reaction before he does....... I'm just trying to find the best way to go about this so our walks remain something they look foreward to.If I need to start retraining him I will.I don't want problems with the pup...... I don't know the answer. I do hope others will jump in here. My dogs loooove their walks, so please don't think that walking at a casual heel is in any way a negative to the dog. And they get lots of off-heel time, but it's always my decision, with a verbal release. These ongoing physical reminders of who's in charge may not be crucial with a submissive and laid-back dog, but I truly believe that they're in everyone's best interest. The pack structure is clearly defined. I am in charge of where we walk, at what pace, etc. If the dog was ahead of me, he'd be in charge of that. Maybe it seems obsessive to keep saying "pack leader" and "pack structure." If I had another way to say it, I'd alternate. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Connie Sutherland wrote 09/08/2006 06:04 PM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Michael Sullivan ] #112907 - 09/08/2006 06:04 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: ok I don't mean to sound stupid here but beside you how? On the left in a heel or one on either side?If its one on either side won't that confuse them for the proper heel position which I think is on the left.And also does it matter which dog is on the outside if their both on the same side?I'm confused myself here but now you can see what I'm going through.As far as sniffing and doing doggy stuff I walk them around the blocks and don't allow them to walk on anyones grass or do their business while on our walks.I let them go before our walks and after. I have two, so for me one on each side is easiest. Neither one is confused by competition or "formal" heel versus casual walks. We go on beach walks and other longer walks and hikes, but, like you, we also do a lot of around-the-block stuff. I don't let them on people's lawns, either. But we pass a park, and lots of poles and trees that they want to sniff or mark ("p-mail"), etc. They can do this, but only when released to do it.
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Michael Sullivan wrote 09/09/2006 05:06 AM Re: Handler dependence ? [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #112908 - 09/09/2006 05:06 AM
Michael Sullivan Webboard User Reg: 03-22-2006 Posts: 99 Loc: Illinois Offline	Thanks again for all the replys.Maintaining pack structure is important to me especially now that I'm working two dogs so I will keep all of this in mind for our next walks.
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