Barbara, how many of us here (who don't own perfect mastiffs <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> have dogs who "barked at strangers without warrant"? Um, like, probably a WHOLE BUNCH!?!

John has repeatedly sought help on this dog, and has tried his best to make the situation work out for everyone. In fact, if remember correctly, John and I shared PMs about the similarites between his dog's behavior at certain times and my own dog's. However, my dog outgrew this phase entirely, or maybe I was able to change it; who knows? Perhaps I should've put him down, Barbara? If barking at strangers is a sign that your dog is going to kill children some day, then call me negligent.

At any rate, none of the things he mentioned were all that noteworthy when speaking of a working GSD. None of us can predict the future, and John feels absolutely horrible, as most of us would in this situation. You're apparently faulting him for not doing this sooner. I don't believe for a minute that John predicted this, and just didn't care. Yes, the situation could've been worse, but he DID take care of it. I don't know that I could've done the same, since the dog was so great with family. Heartbreaking situation, and it's not your place to play GSD Forum Cop. If you have something supportive to say, fine. Otherwise, try to put yourself in John's shoes for a minute.

I'm not trying to turn this into a personal attack on YOU, but with all due respect, what do you know about GSD's and their temperaments? The "legal action" angle is a good way to backpedal...but I'm not buying it. You could've just posted "I told you so."

Stop kicking people when they're down.

Sorry to "go off" but I had to put down a perfectly healthy 4 yr old Pit Bull because of brain injury inflicted by a stranger who beat him "because he was a Pit Bull." The dog went completely nuts and there was nothing we could do about it. One of the worst days of my life. It's an excruciatingly heartbreaking decision to make, if you have one ounce of sensitivity.

You're received such heartfelt sympathy and advice that all I can add is this: You did your best. No one has more than that, ever.

You did the best for your dog, too, and please don't second-guess yourself on that.

Please help your family to grieve. Their grief is no less because of the manner of his passing; they need to remember him as the great companion he was to them -- one who had a problem that couldn't be cured.

I never said or implied he should have put the dog down sooner. Not at all! Nor did I mean to say or imply the barking was anything but fuel for the other side. I was only showing how the posts he's made could be used against him. That wasn't anything at all except a heads up to be careful because if they're discovered, it won't look good for anyone but the other side... Courts are not run by dog people.

That's absolutely true. However, a "Beware of Dog" sign can unfortunately have the same effect, should an incident occur. Sometimes we're in no-win situations, which IMO, is what John was in. My point was he was not in denial, tried his best, and deserves nothing less than heartfelt sympathy, which your post did not convey. Maybe a few of us took it wrong, but it came across as nothing more than "I told you so." I'm sorry if you were truly concerned for his legal well-being.

I didn't mention Beware of Dog signs, I didn't say he should have put the dog down, nor did I mention pitbulls or abused dogs, I never said my dogs were perfect and never barked, and I didn't ask what your point was...

I'm sorry John lost his dog, I'm sorry someone got bit again. I think John is a nice person and would hate to see him go thru stressful litigation and be dragged through the coals. If I say that, I also have to mention the personal responsibility, or I wouldn't be looking at it objectively or responsibly and quite possibly could be putting out the wrong impression. You can have the last word, I'm done and never wanted it to turn into this.

John, I am so sorry this happened. I know you tried your best with your dog.

Will say a prayer for all concerned.

Debbie

John -

Wow, I am so sorry...but I have to tell you coming out and posting your story truely takes courage. I know that sick feeling you get in your stomach when you just feel so bad about your dog. I cannot believe the kindness and understanding and support you are getting from this forum...I am in awe.

I also had an unfortunate incident last December, but have only shared it with folks that also have Pit Bulls. You feel so all alone when something bad happens because of an animal you love, but you are not. Bad things happen to good people all the time. I know how you feel.....

My little Am Staff has had issues with DA ever since she was 18 mos, I have gone through the progression of training techniques...I have watched and solicited advice from the Leerburg folks as I feel they are some of the most knowledgable people I have come across in my research. Last Dec while walking my dog, she disobeyed a tight heel command when another passing dog started barking at her, I corrected her with a prong...the prong was faulty and the metal snapped..she immediately engaged the other dog, much to her dismay an older more experienced dog...a sheppard mix and he had her on the retreat when I reached her and grabbed her by the scruff....the bigger dog bit her in the face and I have to say she was shocked....I thought it was over, my 17 yr old daughter was across the street with my APBT in a sit stay. About that time the owner of the other dog, a 190 lb man, just lost it and and began to kick me and my dog...multiple times...he was very angry and frightened...I have never seen someone so out of control, I kept loosing control of my dog as he kicked us...and for some unknown reason he jumped on his dog as if to protect him, his dog corrected his behavior with a bite to his face. My Pit grabbed his disabled dog by the leg...and after several strikes to my hands and her face by the other owner, I stopped trying to get control of her - through it all she never once redirected to him, a patient Pit Bull...when he finally stopped kicking us I used a choke hold with my arms to take her wind away and I separated the dogs in less than 10 seconds. This man shattered my right thumb, severed a vein and the nerve running to the inside of my thumb. The police were called but no citation was issued as it was deemed an accident, I was terrified to say what had happened, but the officer that came to my home wanted to know why I was covered in my own blood...I never said a word, I was so ashamed of what I had allowed to happen by not having my dog under control. I teetered on the idea of putting her down, but it was my doing...should have had her doubled collared. This man harrassed me for 4 month to destroy both my dogs, then came at me with suit for his dog biting him in his face....I also offered to pay for his vet - the dog had a bite to the leg and his hospital visit, he got stitches where his dog bit him. But the man figured Pit Bull and big bucks...he never knew he had injured me...nor did her care until I threatened to counter sue. It is still not over, and I hate going to my mail box...but it forced me to see I needed a different way to train my dog and she is better than I could ever want now...and she truely is a dog now, I am the pack leader and I am happy with my decision to not put her down. Bottom line some people do not have the ability to emphathise with you...but you must know that accidents happen, and then life goes on and you do things better. You gave me the courage today to tell the folks at Leerburg, whom I respect that I made a mistake..but I have learned from it...and I am human....so are you...thank you

John,

I am so sorry about the loss of your dog. I was in the same situation this past spring. One of our dogs attacked my Sister without warning. We put her down that day because she clearly was crazy and we had done all we could to help her. It was one of the hardest things we had ever done. With us she was a sweet puppy dog. Unfortunately with people she didn't know she was very unstable. Sometimes putting the dog down is sadly the only option. My thoughts are with you.

Barbara -- Apparently you meant well with your post, but it really didn't read that way.

Jeanne

John,
My sincere condolences in your time of sorrow. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

John, bless you for doing the best you knew how for your dog. It's easy to be an "armchair quarterback" when it's someone else dealing with the issues. It sounds to me like you took responsiblity for your dog, for better and unfortunately, worse. My heart goes out to you.

Beth