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Do you think my dogs are ok keeping them together during the day in the back yard though? They seem to get along really well, and I've had them together now for about 4 months with no issues.

Form everything I've learned, especially from Ed's articles and videos, if you want to train your dogs, don't allow them a lot of unsupervised time together. Ed says this makes them "doggy"-- meaning they will quickly learn that being with other dogs is more fun than being with you, and they will get their clues from the other dog more than you.

I think the bottom line is that the dogs can play together if they're friendly, but you want the dogs to spend more time with you than they do with their canine buddies.

My personal experience is that my first dog, who was an "only" dog, formed a really close bond with me and was super easy to train.

When we got another dog, same breed (Corgi) and same parents, we let the two spend all their time together, with or without humans present. The result was that the new dog prefers being with our first dog and is less bonded to us. He's harder to train because of that. My first dog still prefers to be with us over the second dog (although he likes him a lot). I didn't know what "doggy" meant when we got the second dog and made mistakes. It wasn't that big of a deal then because the Corgi's are house dogs and not competition dogs. The "doggy" dog still loves us!

However, in December we'll be getting a working line GSD pup that I plan on doing competitive obedience with. I absolutely will be with that dog more anyone else, dog or person. I'm hell bent on having an amazing bond with that dog and I really believe it will show in the training.

Good luck to you!

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Do you think my dogs are ok keeping them together during the day in the back yard though? They seem to get along really well, and I've had them together now for about 4 months with no issues.

No, b/c of the bonding issue & b/c if you plan on training any of them once you get home they're going to be worn out from romping around all day with eachother. On top of that, pretty much any training you do with them is going to be a drag in their mind...compared to the 8 hours of doggie playtime they just had.

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Hi Kristine,

I am curious if your dogs are crated at night as well? Do you work during the day? I just can't see crating our dogs at night and then during the day as well. I currently work nights at the moment, but in a couple months I will be back on days, so at a bare minimum we are gone during the day for almost 10 hours. That would just be in the crate for way too long imo.

I crated at night when the dogs were puppies, but now I don't. I sleep with them (same room, although I wake up with dogs on me). Not a good idea if you don't know what you're doing though--I am well established in dominance with them. Generally I try not to keep in crates too long even during the day--I have an outside kennel and one crate is very, very big, and now that I know the dogs won't try to eat everything in the house I give them seperate 'rooms'. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> When I'm away, for about 8-10 hours, they are in those individual rooms or kenneled. Crated only if I really have no choice (dog makes a mess and eats things he shouldn't), or during puppyhood for housebreaking purposes. I crate about 2 hours before working the dog to direct all his energy into the task.

As puppies I generally have them on a leash all the time or loose in a small room with me. Then they have to follow me wherever I am and ignore the other dogs if they're loose in the house. Then over time I get the feel for when the puppy is ready and I just let them off in the house, but at this point I know their distinctive personalities and the circumstances when they won't obey (which I then avoid--I never set my dogs up to fail). I only correct if the dog understands what I want, otherwise I direct. You should know what works best for your dog.

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Do you think my dogs are ok keeping them together during the day in the back yard though? They seem to get along really well, and I've had them together now for about 4 months with no issues.

No, b/c of the bonding issue & b/c if you plan on training any of them once you get home they're going to be worn out from romping around all day with eachother. On top of that, pretty much any training you do with them is going to be a drag in their mind...compared to the 8 hours of doggie playtime they just had.

You just managed to say in a short paragraph what it took me to say in a novel! I must master the art of simple speaking! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My three dogs are pets, not working dogs, but they are required to behave. I train each seperately, and when my youngest was a pup, he was always walked seperately, for training and socialization. But, I do let them interact without supervision during the day, and have had no problems. My younger dog is certainly attached to the older female, but he is still very devoted to me, and very bonded, so for my purposes, it has not been a problem.

We're a 4 dog household (2 adults, no kids) and the purposes for each dog are mixed.

Some combinations of the dogs are "OK" together (no fights) but the two females cannot be trusted together, at least not yet. So we have to manage some separation, which takes good communication between the humans.

2 of these dogs are rescues, who still have their own activities (training) that they enjoy, and 2 are GSD's in different phases of SchH training.

We discovered quickly that no matter what the training activity, it's best to keep other dogs away when any one of them is "in training." That includes tracking for the rescued Beagle, and Frisbee games for the rescued female mutt in addition to the GSD's. While Gary and I might think the SchH training for our GSD's is more significant (somehow) to us, the dogs don't know the difference. Cleo takes her frisbee games just as seriously as Buck takes his tracking, which he takes just as seriously as the GSD's take their respective work. Having another dog "loose" on the training field for any of these activities is a major distraction, and adds nothing positive to anyone's experience (human or dog) in the process IMO. We train one at a time.

That being said, the most "serious" training activity is going on with our GSD's. I believe both Ed and our trainer Dave when they say that the optimal training environment for SchH sport is when 1) dogs don't interact with other dogs and 2) dogs in training bond to one human (the handler) for all fun activities.

That being said, even Dave acknowledges that the "no interaction with other dogs or multiple humans" recommendation doesn't fit with everyone's desired family/pet situation. Dave says "just know what you might be giving up."

One of our GSD's is doing fine and continues to progress with SchH sport training, despite getting "house and yard time" with 2 of the other dogs. While he enjoys some play time with the pack, he always comes back to his favorite human first and foremost - and much to my chagrine that is not me.

Our other GSD has to be strictly limited in her "pack" time - otherwise she gets WAY too into the other dogs, and her humans become far less important.

I trust all of the experts who recommend that working dogs ONLY interact with THEIR human. I believe that's optimal. As with all things dog, there are grades, but I think it's important to see what each dog is like, and how they operate if you choose to enter the Gray Zone. That Gray Zone is what we are trying to figure out while balancing our "pets" with our lives and also sport training.

Beth

I am late on this one bot here is my opinion. I have several dogs that live together and are pets! I got a GSD for work and kind of kept apart but they have become a pack. You can not compete with the fun that dogs have together and if you want to seriously train they need to be kept apart until they don't care if another dog is around which may be never. My next working dog which is a Mal will only see the other dogs and be trained and worked played with and socialized with only ME. Dogs will become as Ed says doggie if left with other dogs no if and or buts about it.

my first thought upon reading this was "why does he have a male and a female loose w/each other all day?" i'll grant that at this point, they're both pups and not sexually active, but can we look at the VERY NEAR future here?

get them separated for all the reasons ppl have given you, plus, unless you want puppies by spring, for that reason!! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

i have 3 dogs: 1 10 yr old labX (from the humane shelter), a spayed female, 1 neutered 9 yr male rescue Dobe, and a 10-mo working line GSD, male, intact. the 2 older dogs have free run of the house when i'm gone (b/c they just lay around and sleep as far as i can tell), the pup's crated.

i work the pup outside by himself, and inside, with the 2 older dogs as a distraction. at this point, when we work inside, it's strictly motivational training (he gets his favorite treat when he does a task correctly), he only wears his fur-saver.

and, to address the time-in-crate issue: the pup is in his crate 10-12 hrs/day while i'm at work, and 7 hrs at night while i'm sleeping. i do have an outside kennel (10' x 20') that he goes into if the weather's ok, but i have to build/buy a dog house for him now that fall/winter's here.

even when the weather's nasty enough that he's actually crated 19 hrs/day, he's ok with it. but he's not a mal, and different dogs will take that schedule differently. at the least, i would crate one pup all day one day, put the other pup out, then vice versa the next day.

just my way of dealing with 3 dogs...oh, and they NEVER go out together: one at a time only! hope this helps a little <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I have 3 gsd and a king charles(I don't really count him in my pack ,sorry) I have 2 males one that is 10 months of age soon to be 11 and a 3 1/2 years old male.They all run together and they have the run of the house in & out. The only time I seperate them is when I leave them home alone.I can't trust the young one cause he chews everyting and my oldest male when I'm not around he marks his territory in THE HOUSE but it seems that in my presence he does not, so when I leave the house he goes outside.The king charles gets crated ( he is so hard to potty train!) my female she gets the run of the whole house in and out (when I'm gone).As for feeding time they eat seperately. But over all I can put all in the car and they are fine with one another. They also can play ball with no fights but again that is when I am there.They know I'm the pack leader at all times.My husband and I were watching a movie and I decided to go up stairs to check on the kids(all 4) and all the dogs got up and went with me and my husband was left by himself.He always says"Does that make you the pack leader?"
with a sarcastic voice.I know I am. I also think the temperament of the dogs helps a bit but a strong pack leader is the key.I also understand that when you work your dogs it's best that they don't bond with each other too much.It's hard to do when you have so many dogs and you want to spend as much time with them as possible so I try to seperate them and spend time with them individualy.
I would have so many dogs if I could but I think for now it's working out just fine with the 3 ,ok 4.

Hi Ann,

No risk of pups here... my female is spayed. The Male i'm not neutering yet, I read it's good to not neuter till a year or two or not at all, especially if you want to do training and stuff with them.

Also, atm the only option I have is to crate them to keep them seperated. I supposed I could put one outside and leave one inside the house during the day while i'm gone to keep them seperated but I don't fully trust they wont chew something up while i'm sleeping or gone at work. Two days ago I tried crating them while I was sleeping from 1pm to 7:30pm before I went to work and my female peed in her crate! I was very surprised, but she must be used to going at her leisure during the day when they both have been outside.

Another thing. Since they've been sort of on this routine for the last 5 months approximately, do you think it's too late to form a good bond with each one of them seperately?