I'm thinking that perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. He is one of those dogs who picks everything up and eats it, always sniffing around for something to eat, even if it is kangaroo poo. I need to get him used to us taking things from his mouth, things he shouldn't eat. That is the first reason I am bothering him.
The second reason is that, as I said, he will not have a crate anymore once he is reliably housetrained, he will have a bed in its place. I want to know that if he is eating and we have guests, he isn't going to attack someone who touches him when he is eating. My immeadiate family knows the rules about leaving him while he eats but a visiting child may not.
I have followed the advice of someone here who said to hand feed him and make him work for it, I do this without about half of each meal and that has really helped. But lets just say that I do need to be able to touch him while he eats and I do need to be able to take something from his mouth whenever I see fit, so any suggestions for this?

 Quote: NikkiJarrett

.... I need to get him used to us taking things from his mouth, things he shouldn't eat. ..... The second reason is that, as I said, he will not have a crate anymore once he is reliably housetrained, he will have a bed in its place. I want to know that if he is eating and we have guests, he isn't going to attack someone who touches him when he is eating. My immeadiate family knows the rules about leaving him while he eats but a visiting child may not. .... I have followed the advice of someone here who said to hand feed him and make him work for it, I do this without about half of each meal and that has really helped. But lets just say that I do need to be able to touch him while he eats and I do need to be able to take something from his mouth whenever I see fit, so any suggestions for this?

I would teach Drop It as a separate thing from his actual dish of food, I think. Drop It is very important, but for me it's not particularly related to food I have given the dog.

In general, I think the dog doesn't have to be touched while he eats, and that Drop It is a whole 'nother thing.

I'd practice Drop It frequently and randomly once he has learned the command. (I'd teach it with exchanges of excellent treats for mediocre food or toys, and continue the game throughout the day when he has something in his mouth, usually giving the thing back after an exchange or two, keeping it a good experience, keeping high-value treats handy.) I'd start with asking him to drop low-value items, and work up as he realizes that dropping it works out well for him.

I think the hand-feeding you are doing is a good plan.

I think it's best that the puppy is never alone with small children or strange children, period, and definitely not when he is eating. Also, you can gauge when to give up the crate based on other behaviors besides housetraining. Lots of dogs have a crate until they are at least two. (Lots of dogs continue to sleep in their crates, with the door open, forever, and use it also as a retreat place.) I don't think I'd feel rushed about getting rid of the crate; it can be very useful even after/if he is sleeping in a dog bed.

Just some things that have worked for me. :>

Yeah...while there is aggression, correct for it, but be careful about accidentally creating more aggression or the kind of aggression that wasn't there before because you bother him during mealtimes. This is why people recommend you leave him alone during his regular mealtimes or put him in a crate...if he's showing no signs during this time, then give him the benefit of the doubt. For outside mealtimes, then I would always watch for aggression as well...I can always take anything from my dogs' mouths, and it has nothing to do with me always petting them while eating and so on. This though is not because I want to make them 'safe', but because I'm a bully. I get what I want from them.

Like Connie said, the best thing also is that the puppy is not left alone with children. It's a recipe for disaster. It sounds really tough but the safest thing, especially for big dogs, is to keep the dog under your control at all times, so even if he is inclined to be aggressive your presence will override it. You can try as much as you want but you can't make your dog view you and a small child in the same way--in other words, even if he lets you touch him while eating, it doesn't mean he'll let a child. I would focus more on getting a communication going with your dog so he views you with respect and you know his every movement.

Thankyou for the suggestions. They are very helpful. I have, as I said been hand feeding him some of his meals for a little while now and as far as he is concerned, I am the God of dog food. It is going very well, I don't bother him while he eats but will occassionally put my hand in his bowl to add a special treat. he has beomce very happy with me putting my hand in his bowl but mostly I just leave him be.
I will NEVER leave him alone with children, I am definitely aware of those risks, I am just aiming for him to learn to be as gentle as possible.
The crate will have to go eventually, our home is not large and well, the crate is. I am in no rush though, I just don't want it in my house for 10 years. One year or 18 months is ok though, we will play it by ear and see how he goes. He loves to shew and if it means my furniture is going to be chewed, the crate stays.
Thanks again.

 Quote: nikkijarrett

I am the God of dog food. It is going very well,

Lovely to hear from you again, Nikki, and that things are going so well for y'all! Heh, heh, Let us all be Gods to our dogs, heh, heh...

By the way, what sort of crate are you using? Is it like the "vari-kennel" which can actually be taken apart & be made into a bed? That might solve part of your space problem, while at the same time, at the back of your mind you know it can be a full-size crate again for your pup.

Me; I recieved a bit of a growl over some food when my dog was a wee thing. I guess I could have corrected the crap out of him...but...eh. That seemed kind of lazy and rash considering we were new to eachother and he was just a wee thing. Instead, since then:

-He has not been given any single solitary chunk of food which would take more than a minute or two to consume (for which he would hence become kinda protective).

-No chunk of said food has ever gone uncontested; meaning always teaching him or refining something via his food drive... and it comes from my hand.

-When I know he's thirsty I even have him sit before water.

-And no toss of the toy has gone uncontested.

I am thus the pez dispenser of all his happiness.

And we have a great time doing all this.

And if he STILL acts like a dork, THEN he gets corrected.

Drive should not be wasted. )

I would be more concerned about the dominance issues on such a powerful breed with children in the house. An 11 week old puppy humping?? Yikes.

I would strongly, strongly suggest that you read (or listen on iTunes) Ed's article on doing the groundwork with your pup.

http://www.leerburg.com/puppygroundwork.htm

I second the "drop it" idea!

Nikki, The link that Amber posted is a good place to start. At 11 weeks you have many months of conditioning the correct response in your pup.

The commands that I prefer to use are "leave it" and "out". "Leave it" means don't touch it to start with and "out" means spit it out and don't touch it again at all or til I say you can. I would also work on "yours" and "mine". Mine means don't touch it at all....ever.

I totally agree with Amber's post.... dog with dominance issues/children = lots of good foundation work.

Regards,
Debbie

Unfortunately, our crate is a wire crate and doesn't come apart. I am in Australia and crate training is virtually unheard of here, so I had the toughest time finding any crate at all. You should hear some of the comments I get on crate training him, such as "that is so cruel, locking him in a cage." nevermind the fact that he loves his crate and he feels secure in it, stupid people.
Thanks for the idea though.

Thanks Steven. I think we have struck a healthy balance and I feel confident he is doing well. Some of your ideas may be useful to us, so thanks for taking the time.