Hi Wendy. Switching out of frisbee mode, and into ball mode for a moment...

One of our GSD's recently came home after a stint with a professional getting her SchH1 title. Her trainer prefers balls as rewards, and Kimba did well learning with balls as her reward item.

Problem was - Kimba came home in mid-October, and as I picked up her training, we kept losing the balls in leaves (lots of trees on our property). That was very disruptive to our training sessions.

A couple of questions - do you use two balls or just one? We like having two of the same toy which in my "novicity" (another favorite made up word of mine) keeps the prey game very active. Kimba would rather be chasing the next toy than searching for the last toy that got lost in the leaves.

I was able to switch with her and work with jute tugs which are much easier to find if she loses sight of one. We also have "neon" colored cheap plastic ribbon - it comes on large spools that you can buy at places like Home Depot. Tying a short piece of that neon plastic ribbon to the handle of the jute tug, or the string on the ball can be a huge help "finding it in the leaves" if the dog loses track - minimizing distruption to high energy training activity.

Another note - do you stick with the frisbees and make that the prey item, or do you revert back to a ball pretty quickly? I'm guessing that if your dog loves the chase, then if a frisbee (easier to find for you and your dog in the snow) is the only available toy, then eventually your dog might chase that, if given no other option.

Hope this makes sense... in my own Novicity!...

Beth

Amy, I really think 2 frisbees will help a lot. Dogs like to keep "1" toy, but believe me, the prospect of a second "active" toy is probably more interesting to them than the one they have in their mouth.

This may not be the most stellar frisbee play training method, but here's how we did it. (after realizing we had the same problem as you - they don't want to give up or bring back frisbee #1).

While dog has frisbee #1, show dog frisbee #2. Wave it around. Make it look interesting. As soon as dog drops frisbee#1, throw frisbee#2. Once the dog figures out that giving up #1 keeps the game alive with #2, you can start working on getting the dog to bring frisbee#1 back to you and dropping it at your feet to get #2 going. Once that is working, we introduced other commands i.e. sit, down, etc. We also reinforced the dropping of frisbee#1 with the "out" command. The second she "outs" #1, #2 is launched.

Does that make sense?

Beth

Thanks Beth! That makes perfect sense! I think Maverick will really respond to that, he loves chasing after things!!! And he gets excited for anything we want to give him...
I'll keep you posted on the frisbee training, should be fun...I just wish the weather was nicer outside right now. Sleeting rain, yuck! Winter is coming

Hey Beth,

I used to play two ball with Tucker when I first got him, but that was because I was training him to drop the ball on command, once he mastered that i went to using just one ball as he always brings the ball right back to me and drops on command. He learned quite quickly the the quicker he comes back and drops, the quicker he's off again.

But you made a good point, I should grab another frisbee and start doing that over again. At first I only brought the frisbee with me (no ball) on our walks to the park. And he would chase the frisbee, he just wouldn't follow through. Its almost like he knows I am throwing the frisbee, but chases it in hopes its going to turn into the ball once it drops (lol). I even tried (after reading one of the articles on here regarding building drive)to tease him with it a bit, get him worked up and just busting to get it, but his gusto fades at the end of his run. The frisbee can drop right down in front of him and he's still twirling around like a top out in the field looking to see if the ball dropped too! Its cute, but definately not what I am looking for. So its not so much that he won't chase, he chases the frisbee, but he loses steam in the end once he realizes its not the ball. lol..it kind of sounds like hes not all that bright, but really he is!
I do stick with it, but my worry is just getting him exercised enough. He's part Border Collie so he really needs a consistent work out to get the ants out of his pants. He will eventually bring the frisbee back, but only after searching to make sure the balls not hidden somewhere in the grass.
I liked your idea of the string on the ball though.....I would think that would help him find the ball, even in the snow.
But before i give up on this (I am a bit stubborn) i think I'll invest in another frisbee and keep at this for a couple of weeks.
I now have visions of him becoming a star frisbee dog, so I am not gonna give up on him yet..lol

My dog wouldn't chase or catch a frisbee when we first started playing with one. You could tell he was interested, but didn't know what to do with it. Instead of throwing it normal where it would fly through the air, I threw it sideways where it would roll across the ground. Its kinda awkward to throw it that way, but instead of it leaving your hand flat, it should leave your hand angled towards the ground so it hits and rolls. It rolls fast, bounces over bumps, and really comes to life. Every few times I would throw it normal and finally after a bunch of throws switching it up he started catching it and got pretty good at it. It still really brings his drive up when I roll it though. He will intensly chase it and explode on it when he catches it. Lots of growling and shaking it, like he just caught real prey. As far as dropping the toy I don't know, Turbo thinks the game is incomplete if he doesn't get to tug. I would also look into a "find it" game for lost toys. http://www.dogscouts.com/scent.shtml Connie gave this link in another thread and it has been some of the most fun my dog has ever had.

My dog is very reliable returning to me after fetching the ball, but he ALWAYS drops it on the way back. He then sits in front of me and waits for me to throw the ball. Uh, hello! How can I throw it if you dropped it, buddy?! I can then pretend to throw a ball in the direction of where he dropped the ball and he'll run after it as if I've thrown it again. Eventually, he catches on to the phantom fetch game and then waits and waits and waits until I throw the real ball, which I don't have. The game usually ends there unless I walk over to where he dropped the ball and start again. What I do now is make him wait at the spot where I was once standing, walk over to where he dropped the ball, pick it up, and call him to me before throwing it again. Sure, we both end up getting twice as much exercise as a regular game of fetch, but I wish he would bring the ball all the way back to me sometimes!!

Does anyone think using 2 balls with solve this problem? I just don't want to spend $10 on another Kong ball if I'm going to end up with TWO balls that are dropped halfway on his return back to me.

I've just started doing some of the work in the Drive & Focus DVD with the hope of teaching a firm grip and having him hold the ball until I say so, but my dog seems a little too sharp and too easily frustrated for this kind of training. When he gets in real high drive and super frustrated, he turns on me. But then after the struggle, he wants nothing to do the the tug and would rather make himself as small as possible on the ground as if to apologize for the transgression. And quite frankly, I prefer it is that way--and my aching, bloody, and bruised forearm agrees! I'm hoping there is a different way to teach the retrieve without doing "bitework" because when he's not in high drive, he's a wonderful dog to be around (after putting him through all the work in the Leerburg Basic OB, E-Collar Training, and Dominant/Aggressive Dog DVDs).

mine always fetches and drops it, but I've been trying to get her to hand it to me instead of bending over to pick it up...then she wants to tug.

well it took a few no go no throws to convince her if she wanted to see it fly, she'd have to cooperate and let go. she's getting better, but it's work in progress.

when she catches too many in a row to live with herself, I'll fling it left handed, which flips the curve it travels too.

I have to thank you as well, Beth, for the timely advice. I've been working on retrieving and the "out" with my 4 month old using treats and it isn't working very well...mostly because he's so revved up he's taking my hand along with the treat. Fun for him but really painful for me. The 2 ball/toy idea should be alot more fun for both of us.

 Quote: sarah_morris

I have to thank you as well, Beth, for the timely advice. I've been working on retrieving and the "out" with my 4 month old using treats and it isn't working very well...mostly because he's so revved up he's taking my hand along with the treat. Fun for him but really painful for me. The 2 ball/toy idea should be alot more fun for both of us.

I have a blast playing frisbee with Princess Mutt...but PLEASE watch the Bernard video, and get more sophisticated advice about this game here on Leerburg!!

I'm not qualified (as one example) to say EXACTLY what to do when the dog outs toy 1 early. I have the benefit of a trainer who "first hand" coaches us with our SchH prospects. (Frisbee Princess is just having fun and is a stellar practice dog).

An early out might be an indication that your very smart dog has figured out your pattern in the game. What we like about using tugs in "two toy training" with our SchH prospect dogs as opposed to balls, etc. is that the tugs seem to add more options that tie into bite/grip work. Our female prefers the chase as her favorite reward. But she loves a grip too, and by using tugs we can work tht in.

Our male prefers the fight as his favorite reward. We can "two toy" with both of them on tugs and satisfy both. The game just gets changed up. For us anyway, overcoming the early out in the game has everything to do with keeping the dog a bit off guard - once they get back, will they get to chase again? Fight (with the tug)? Do some OB command(s)? Then get to chase or fight?

Frisbee games with the mutt are much less complicated than what we are doing with our SchH prospects. For the GSD's, coming "with speed" and thinking fast on their feet (which by default, applies to the humans) is the goal.

It's great aerobic exercise in any case!

Beth