Chris:
I have to politely disagree, timeouts do work for SOME kids (I have 2 boys that are very well behaved thank you) and they do work for SOME dogs. You're right not all. But with my APBT's that I've had (a total of 4-5 in my lifetime) timeouts work very effectively. They like to be with the pack and when they are separated with some time to calm down it's effective. I don't like to over correct physically nipping with my APBT's just due to their tendency and since I have kids. Notice I said a correction and a timeout, not just a timeout.

Anyway, best of luck Tiffany.

Disagreements are good. I still will politely disagree that timeouts don't work. The only time a time out works in my opinion is if YOU are the one that needs a time out before you go over board and set your training back by losing your temper.

How do you administer a time out to a dog anyway? Do you tell them they are getting a time out? I am curious on this one, not trying to be antangonistic, I just don't get it.

The biggest problems that I see when helping people with problem pets, is the fact that most people over anylyze the problem.Or they humanize the problem. Dogs are simple, getting them to do your bidding, is simple. If you are having a hard time, take a step back and look at it a little more simplistically.

My favorite example for this is as follows. I get alot of people that complain about their dogs getting in the trash. Most people try to make this into a huge affair with training, setting mouse traps, putting tobasco in the trash can etc etc. The simplest answer is to get a lid for your trash can.

Anyway can someone explain a doggy time out to me. Thanks.

A problem that arises with many dog owners is that they've not realized that dogs are not humans. I see this often not only at this site but at others as well. "Dogs are better at being dogs than people are at being people." Most dogs prefer the challenge of tasks, either show or working, more than they prefer being kissed and hugged. It simply goes with the timeless bond between man and canine, with the canine stating "I'll find it, you kill it, and we'll eat it." This creates a bonded team that performs in show or work.

I, along with Ed, and a few others here, have seen our share of dogs. I began my career during the Viet Nam War tracking Viet Cong and NVA Regulars and to date I'm now a consultant/trainer with the USMC where, during the past 6 years, we've reworked the Corp's K9 program and have teams in the field in the current theatre of operations...so I can't say much...but what I can say comes from years of experience.

Seldom will you find a pure bred dog within the US Military. We learned the hard way that 'breed specific' allowed many fine dogs to slip through the cracks and those that were slipping thru the cracks were often more task oriented that pure breds. I'd say that most of those that are 'breed specific' are from the Mal and GSD line, but we really don't know for sure. All that is necessary is that they "look" like a pure bred. In that I mean that what appears to be a Lab may not be a pure bred Lab etc etc etc.

Most of our dogs are purchased in Europe where displasia is not rampant as in the US...and we all know the single most reason for American dogs having displasia.

What we search for are dogs that will give us results. Men's lives depend on our decisions. We could care less about the breed as long as the results will prevent Marines from taking hits...and to date we're batting a thousand. We've tried almost every breed known to man and have taken a very long look at three 'picturesque' breeds that do seem to take to our requirements more often than others...the Mal, the Lab, and the GSD. Some are truly amazed that Labs and Lab/X are truly one of the finest tracking dogs around. The problem in our business is that tracking is all a Lab can give..without any potential for a bite, whereas, with the other two the bite is a possibility, but they are a bit more reluctant to adapt to a new handler...and if his handler is wounded in combat it sometimes makes it difficult for medical assistance when 'Doc' is facing 42 teeth, 4 paws, and an attitude.

In my opinion there is but one best breed...and that's the breed that makes your boat float...be they pure breds or Heinz 57's. It sickens me that we destroy so many dogs annually with so much potential.

Someday, if this war is ever over I'd be happy to publish to you our findings...but rest assured that our dogs are not just working dogs, but war dogs. They share every experience that his handler shares. And, make no mistake about it...we do routinely track in the most inhospitable conditions one can imagine. And, yes, Virginia....contrary to popular belief we do track vehicles, with extremely high successes. It isn't the metal we're tracking, it's a combination of debris that has accumilated on the undercarriage presenting its own scent picture. And, to track through the desert southwest it takes 1 liter of water per hour to keep the canine in business...along with a two gallon water sprayer to occassionally wet him down. The sun does not destroy human scent in five hours, the desert sand is loaded with bacteria that assists in tracking much like chlorophyl would...and so on and so on. I'm about to say too much. lol

So, that's my dime...I'll continue reading. I do enjoy the comments and even after all these years I still learn from you guys.

dlayne

Hmmmmm. Interesting read, but what does it have to do with this thread? And I would like to know what the single cause of hip dysplasia in the U.S. is attributed to.

David, very cool. I don't understand what it has to do with a mouthy pit bull though.

Anyway, I have a mouthy 16 month old Catahoula who is like you say - doing it playfully and not biting down. I have managed to successfully train him out of jumping up - yet I can't seem to break this habit.

As for time outs, what she means is putting the dog in a crate or another room that is away from the family or the dog's "pack". In other words, separating the dog for a while into "solitary confinement" - kind of like how a child is sent to his room.

I personally do use time outs by putting the dog in his crate and ignoring him when he is getting barky or mouthy. I don't think the dog views this as punishment and indeed it is not my intention to punish him, it's just to give him some calm time alone so he can wind down.

 Quote: tiffanygriffin

Any ideas on how to break it? I know I probably need some alpha work. He listens fairly well most of the time. If I try the cheek grabbing and "NO" he just barks and takes off running again. He's much stronger than me and I can't keep hold unless I have a collar, etc. I obviously can't do a scruff shake...he's a good 60lbs+.

Thanks ahead!

I think you need some alpha work too. I am familiar with gamebred APBT and they can be quite dominant and mouthy too. The cheekgrab is my favorite cure for mouthiness (which IS actually a scruff shake that the mom dog/alpha would do. I would NEVER advise a scruff shake if yore referring to the grab on the back of the neck. This is an incorrect way of doing it and can cause aggression or bite from a dog.) It sounds like you are not doing the cheekgrab hard or seriously enough. It is not a "no,no, bad dog" punishment. It's a "you better knock it off, unless you want to see the light" punishment. A correctly administered cheekgrab should get your dogs attention immediatly.It should be firm quick, serious, and stare into the dog's eyes. Frown, you mean business. Your dog should stare back, stop moving and wigglying or trying to bite, and then submiss, usually whining and trying to lick with apology. After you let go, the dog should sulk almost while wagging tail, licking and submissing sometimes by rolling over on tummy. Some dogs do less- like dominant ones, but body language should show that that was not enjoyable and they are submissive. (Note: gamebred pits especially have very high pain tolerances and will need a much firmer grab.) Make sure you are grabbing between the edge of the mouth and the ear on the side of the jaw. Fill your whole hand with skin so they can't bite you in protest, squeeze and twist until the dog understands and reacts submissively. Hold for a few seconds and get that message across and then release and don't coo over the dog. A few seconds to chill out after helps. Remember one good correction is worth a 100 nagging ones. I've had dogs never be mouthy again after one cheek grab and some need two reminder, but I have never had to do more than three on a dog.(They usually return immediately to start playing again after first one and are shocked to receive it again- these are the dogs who usually have the same problem as yours. They learn though.)

Get your pack in order first though because this may disappear once the pack is settled. You don't want to take on a fight that you can't win with your dog. But atleast you know what to do if it the pack thing doesn't help.

During the crazies... I just put the dog in a down stay and let them chill. Of course this is for obnoxious behavior not energy that needs to be expelled. Exercise like everyone mentioned is gonna help every problem you have.

About the bitter apple too. I don't spray it on my hands. I spray it in the dogs mouth. This is really unpleasant and if he wants to touch my hands with his teeth then I give him a spray immediately with the bottle being in my hand. One smell of that stuff in the future will send him running.
Time outs don't work for kids or dogs and are a sorry excuse for not being strong enough to discipline or knowing how to discipline correctly, I feel. (I am a mom) With kids it just causes spite, with Dogs it just cause more energy and associates the crate as punishment. (a down stay is not a time out- it is a obedience command and not a substitute for exercise.)

Alison Voore

I'd like to add something about the crating time-out idea.

Crates aren't for punishment, IMO. Crates are the dog's good, safe place.

So whether time-outs work for dogs or not (and I think "not"), I'm pretty firmly opposed to crating as punishment.

JMO.