Geneva
I wish you lots of success with your dog , you have so many plans for him!!
Good for you, I hope it all happens the way you want.
It seems that you have gotten good responses from people with Dutch shepherds and I will still PM you the info when I get it.
Good luck to you and your dog!

http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/cadogancna/

Thanks. I adore this dog! He is so great! I can't wait for the information. Thanks again.

OK so is that a dutchie cross or a dark mali cross? Both can be born in the same litter, a brindle dog is then named an X/HH (Dutchie Cross) and the dogs born fawn/malinois solid coloring are named X/MH (Malinois Cross). Not many purebred working dutchie's out there anymore, only 1 line that I know of personally and I wouldn't be surprised if there were mali in those lines too somewhere down the pedigree. Did I read that right? You would like to start a breeding program for Dutchies? If so, please spend alot of time researching, it's tough enough finding a good dog, easier in the dutchie/mali lines, but I would hate to see those get even more diluted by people who don't know what qualities they are breeding for and know all the info about the various lines and crosses. They're not GSD's, the traits I would look for in a GSD are far far different from those I would look for in a Mali or a Dutchie, so make sure you know about what to look for. Do you know both parents? Do you know how to analyze what you see in them? Can you tell the difference between natural good behaviors and poor behaviors that were covered up by good training? Lots of things to look for, and with this breed in particular with their drive and energy it's easy to think your dog is worth breeding simply based on that when there might be a better dog down the road that would make your current dog look like a whimp. I don't know your dog so don't take it as criticism or anything like that, I love the breed myself and only want to see it go in the right direction

Mike,

Thank you for your advice. Both of my dog's parents are Dutchies, but as with almost all Dutchies line there is probably mal some where in the line. But he is a Dutch. You have no need to worry about me researching about breeding. I am NOT a person that goes "Oh I have a dog, it should have puppies" person. I do tons of research, and breed dogs that are worth breeding, and spay or neuter the ones that aren't worth breeding. I have been researching eveything about the breed I can find, and have been talking to as many people as possible that have more experience in the Dutchies, and learning from them. My dog has good nerves, sound structure, clear head, outstanding drives, and a great temperament. The only thing I would have liked more of from him, is in the protection work he is mostly prey drive, and I would have liked to have a little more aggression. I understand very clearly that GSD and Dutchies are two very different breeds, and very different in structure, behavior, and temperament. I am very careful when I decide to start a breeding program, I have been trying to start a GSD breeding program for 9 years, and finally have found a small core group that meets my standerds. I am very strict, and have nuetered, and spayed many dogs to find the right ones. The same care will be taken with my Dutch program. I hate to see how uneducated breeding practices can ruin a breed. I want to improve the breed through my programs, and produce top working dogs. I have a vet helping me to make sure my dogs are sound in structure, OFA's and things like that, and I have the help of experienced breeders and trainers to help me make sure the dogs are truely worth breeding. So please don't worry, I am very careful, detailed and serious about breeding dogs. It was not a decision made on a whim, but a very thought out, and planned, and researched decision. Thanks again for your input.

Do you have the dogs pedigree? Can you PM it to me? I'd be interested in seeing it.

Hello,
My wife has Dutchies. We both really like them. Our SchH1 female came from seven Pines and is out of Nico. She is a good one. Here is a link to site that my wife put up with her two Dutchies on it. http://performancek9dutchshepherds.20fr.com/

Hi Geneva. Best wishes with your Dutch Shepherd and your breeding program. I don't have much to add, other than the fact that in the last week, someone contacted us at http://www.JolietSchutzhund.com who would like to train a Dutch GSD for SchH.

We totally enjoy the many breeds we have met here - and we especially enjoy the owners who have chosen to train weekly here. All of these dogs are incredibly special!!

Beth

Mike,

His pedigree is on the way. My friend that I bought him from had misplaced the puppy papers, so the breeder, Judith from Seven Pines is reordering them for me. I should have them in a couple of weeks. I do know that his Sire is Arjen van Neerland and his dam is Mika van Hoek.

I'm very glad to hear what others are saying about the breed. Thanks so much.

If he was bred by Seven Pines then he is a Dutchie/Mali cross unless I'm missing something? All the dogs I've seen on the Seven Pines website come from the KNPV lines of crosses. Nothing wrong with that, some great dogs come from the crossed lines, but the solid color made me wonder why they would refer to him as a dutch shepherd rather than a malinois... as I said before, dogs born brindle are X/Hollandse Herders (meaning Dutch Shepherd cross) and dogs born solid are X/Mechelse Herders (meaning Malinois cross). In the US they are often referred to as Dutch Malinois' to distinguish between a papered mali and a KNPV crossed mali. I'm just gettin technical It bugs me when people own a dutch dog without understanding how the lines work and intersect.

For example, if you look at Yaska van Neerland, their prize bitch, the pedigree on the mothers side is predominantly fawn colored Malinois crosses, as is the bottom half of the fathers side of the pedigree. The Mali X's are still out of the same litters that produce the Dutchie X's, but their name is determined by the coloring. If you look back far enough in the pedigree, which you can't, because the dogs are unpapered and therefore they don't track that far back, you will find malinois lines. The 3rd generation back on the top half of the fathers side of Yaska are already all unknown dogs, so most likely some very recent malinois breeding there. Yaska's great great grandmother "Cora" is 90% purebred Malinois if you look at the pedigree for her, crossed with a Malinois cross of some sort, but again, where the crossing happens they loose track of the lines and just put "unknown" for the dog.

Because of the way these lines are it's difficult to breed consistent litters, there are a few breeders who consistently produce nice working dogs, but most times these are breeders who linebreed and set their lines with the traits they want. The breeders who just grab 2 nice dogs with unset lines like the KNPV lines are known for will no doubt produce a nice dog here and there, but far from the consistency of someone who is linebreeding to create their own set lines.

So like I said, nothing personal against your dog or the lines, I know Seven Pines has produced some good dogs so odds are you have the genetics to back it up, but do alot of research before you breed these kinds of dogs There's alot more to it when you're dealing with so much outcrossing, I wouldn't even know where to begin n I've been studying the dutch pedigrees for over a year now.

Mike,

No worries, this is why I have asked for other input. So I can learn from it. My boy is outstanding in his work, and is mentally and physically sound. I will be doing all the research that it is possible to do. In my programs I'm working towards producing Police Dogs. Thanks for your advice, and I will continue to research the lines. I already knew that most lines have Mal in them, and I will find out more about it. I'm still fairly new to the Dutchies and am so eager to learn as much about them as possible I started my research on the Dutch Shepherds about 9 months ago and still have so much to learn. Thanks again.