Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#122334 - 12/27/2006 02:00 PM |
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Clicker training horses came into vogue after I had to give up horses, but I believe one of the first things the horse learns is to touch the end of the whip with its nose. The whip then becomes the horse's target - it learns to follow it, which enables teaching additional behaviors. In circus training, too, you'll see the "Liberty" horses worked with whips - but the horses aren't hit, the whips simply extend the trainer's arms. Or if you've ever seen movie horse training, same thing - the trainer is off camera with whips that simply give the horse instructions.
I watched the video again, and didn't see any signs of distress, even over the jumps. The horses have their ears turned back in a listening postition, not flattened back in an I-hate-this position. There was no excessive sweating, open mouths, head tossing, rolling eyes. Given a choice, I'm sure they might like to just run free in a field all day. Given a choice, wouldn't our dogs like to run free chasing rabbits with their buddies all day? You're right that we should ensure animals enjoy training, but any training, even just having animals live with us, is unnatural. But it's going to happen, so let's make it as comfortable and fun for the animal as possible. If you want to see a horse that definitely doesn't like someone on its back, go to a rodeo. Now THAT's abuse (IMO).
Parek |
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#122335 - 12/27/2006 02:00 PM |
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Loved the video!
The stick's just an extension of the handler's arm. You could see in their bodies that they weren't afraid of him & were enjoying themselves.
I remember seeing a video on training circus & film-trick horses. One of the horses actually used to do his falling-down trick while galloping free around the paddock!
Edit: I think we need a note saying another poster just replied & would you like to edit your post
"A dog is a mirror of a man's soul" |
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Molly Graf ]
#122362 - 12/27/2006 07:03 PM |
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Molly, the Camargue horses are not wild horses, they are commonly used to drive the fighting bulls people breed in that area, they are descendants of spanish domestic stock.
Angelique, I didn't see the whole video but I assume the guy uses a stick or a whip because he can't use leg cues while standing on the horses' backs so he needs some extra help. It doesn't necessarilly means he's inflicting pain to the horses. I could see those horses (at least some of them) are stallions which means he needs to control them and use corrections if needed, remember some of them like to play alpha on other horses as well as on humans.
This is a bit different kind of videos but they show some good control over a horse, in this case the trainer uses a "flag" instead of a whip as an arm extention to give directions to the horse:
Pat Parelli 1
Pat Parelli 2
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Molly Graf ]
#122364 - 12/27/2006 07:28 PM |
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This is another fun video that's about a horse remembering a possible past as a cutting horse (by the tack seems like that horse was roping) after its rider fell off its back.
Hold that cow
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Luis_Gutiérrez ]
#122367 - 12/27/2006 07:59 PM |
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Thanks for explaning what the use of the whip is .I have had horses but I cna't say i did a whole lots with them, I do love them very much as an animal.
You guys I never said it was not a good video or a not a good thing to do with what this guy is doing but wanted to know (educate myself on why ,of certain things) my son asked me why the whip at all times and thought I would throw that in my reply.
Anita,Yes I would rather see them run free but hey I want to live in paradise too
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Angelique Cadogan ]
#122385 - 12/28/2006 12:15 AM |
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Thanks for posting that Molly, I really enjoyed it. Wonderful control and very fluid performance.
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Molly Graf ]
#122394 - 12/28/2006 05:56 AM |
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Beautiful, amazing and brilliant...took my breath away. Beautiful testimony of what love and leadership with an animal can produce.
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#122412 - 12/28/2006 10:08 AM |
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Thanks for that video Molly! What a relationship and WHAT AMAZING BALANCE Lorenzo has! I would have lasted about 10 seconds standing on my horses back. LOL
As a Level 2 Parelli student, it is so cool to see the direction people can take their relationship with their horses. I use a carrot stick (i.e.whip) for communicating with my horse. Humans are tall, and horses are "long". This gives us the same scope and personal space that a horse has. It's never used as punishment, just as a tool like any training tool you would use with horses or dogs or whatever.
My horse will play with me at liberty, and it is a fine line between dominance and submission in most cases. If you are a fair leader, and are mindful of your intent and body language as well as knowing your horse it can be an amazing experience. I think that's why you see Lorenzo's horse with the pinned ears in the portion of the video where he is playing with one of the horses. All games horses play are quests for dominance, and just like with dogs, you better make sure you present yourself as the Herd or Pack leader!
Pat Parelli's motto is "Love, Language and Leadership in equal doses"... works for dogs and kids too.
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Cindy Easton Rhodes ]
#122505 - 12/29/2006 10:10 AM |
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As a horse person too, I used clickers, classical, and operant conditioning with mine. I liked the video but noticed the pinning of the horses ears and some mild head throwing in the ring when they were following "Lorenzo". Hmmmmm... I'd be looking over my shoulder a often too if they were doing that. Running and playing with my horses in the fields, they'd get a little too frisky sometimes and throw a kick my way.
Top Paw Training: serving Canyon Lake & New Braunfels, San Antonio to Austin. |
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Re: OT again- but a video worth seeing (HORSES)
[Re: Alison Mayo ]
#122774 - 12/30/2006 10:16 PM |
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Thanks for posting that video Molly! Lorenzo is amazing! Wow, driving 4 horses, going over seperate jumps and standing bareback....takes my breath away!
Maggie |
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