Aww Anita, I think that the advice against feeding the smaller bones to big dogs applies if your big dog is a "gulper".

As long as your dog is careful about chewing up the bones and you feel comfortable that he isn't going to choke on the smaller pieces, you can go ahead with your current feeding plans.

It's more of a general guideline than a strict rule, and it depends on the individual dog, lol.

When my pup was younger (3-4 months old), he used to INHALE his food (and he was weaned on raw - you'd think he would've learned to eat by then!!). As a result, I could never feed him anything small-ish (such as chicken wings). I tried giving him a wing once and he swallowed it in 1/4 of a second - I was terrified (raw feeding was still very new to me then)!!

I sat all night staring at him and poking his belly every now and then to make sure he wasn't bloating or anything (he slumbered peacefully through the night). Then, I anxiously poked at his poop in the morning through a plastic bag, but no trace of scary bone shards in there

Obviously he was able to handle it, even as a baby (and many others here can share stories of their dogs scarfing down much larger bones without ill-effects) but it was too nerve-wracking for me.

Luckily my older female is extremely dainty and meticulous and chews up everything into wee little pieces before swallowing, so I gave all the chicken wings and necks to her, and let my monster pup have the chicken thighs - those are too big to swallow without chewing

The good news is that my pup eventually outgrew the "inhaling" phase and now eats like a little gentleman. I can trust my dogs with just about any bone now, what a relief!

And Connie is right, of course
No one may ever agree on whether or not dogs "need" veggies, but if you feel they're important, by all means include them!
You'll see for yourself how well your dogs do on different foods and you'll learn to eventually relax and go with what's comfortable for you.

I very occasionally include veggies for my dogs, just in case they provide something that's missing from my dogs' diet (Connie and I share that logic, lol). However I no longer include veggies every day or even every week since doing my own research. I now believe that dogs are not capable of digesting them, even with the veggies being cooked or pulverized (the pancreas would have to work harder to compensate for the lack of enzymes).

But hey, if you only include veggies rarely it won't hurt the dog. The worse that could happen is that it'll end up being useless in the end

 Quote: yuko blum

Aww Anita, I think that the advice against feeding the smaller bones to big dogs applies if your big dog is a "gulper".

Whew. Don't have to replace those necks after all! Actually, she also mentions a good tactic is to feed meat/bones frozen, which slows (most) dogs down. Since I also frequently forget to take stuff out of the freezer and/or my fridge is too cold, I've been sort of doing that by default anyway. Pat self on back.

But then she also says not to feed large ungulate femur bones because they splinter / damage teeth. Another forum member a few days ago said one bone a day (I have my butcher cut them into 2" slices) isn't too much, but not to feed them frozen, because THAT causes teeth damage. Smack self upside the head.

Necks! No, legs! Large bones! No, no large bones! Frozen! Thawed! Actually, I think there's probably less disagreement among raw feeders than in the endless latest study says drinking one glass of wine with real butter and liver pate is good for you. No! We mean bad for you! I think I'll just keep doing what I've been doing - check my dog's ribs nearly every day, adjust the amount of food accordingly, and don't go overboard on any one thing.

This is enough to make me go eat a large bar of dark chocolate. I certainly don't need no studies to know that's good for me

Hee hee, Anita... every caring dog owner who's new to raw goes through the same confusion and panicking and worrying.

Again, the frozen bones or the femur bones should or shouldn't be fed depending on the dog
If your dog tends to "pitbull grip" his food (i.e grabs and squeezes as hard as he possibly can), then it's probably best to avoid the super hard weight-bearing bones.

If your dog is a little mellower and is a gentle chewer, you probably don't have to worry.

Yeah, the ungulate leg bones do tend to splinter, but my dogs just like to crush the bone open and eat out the marrow. They don't actually eat the bone shards (I give them the lower leg of deer, not the femur). They seem to know what's edible and what isn't... not saying all dogs are like that, but if they are you can breathe a little easier.
My pup actually likes eating the hooves of deer... is he supposed to do that?!?

Ooh, ooh!!!! I know this one, chocolate should definitely NOT be fed to dogs!!!!

There, you have at least one unequivocal answer when it comes to feeding dogs. Pretty much everything else is "it depends"... as you said, common sense is the way to go!

Not to worry. The chocolate's for me. I don't even share it with my kids.

Deer hooves -- may taste similar to horse hooves. When I used to have a horse, and the farrier came to shoe other horses (I was a maverick on that subject and kept mine barefoot - even the farrier admitted he had the best feet in the barn and that was probably why). Where was I? Oh yes - anyway, the barn dogs would go nuts, hanging around the horse being shod, waiting for those yummy hoof trimmings to go flying their way. The dogs cleaned up every last piece. So yes, it makes sense they would like deer hooves. My dog also loves (raw) pigs feet. Chewy, great taste, less filling.

 Quote: yuko blum

... No one may ever agree on whether or not dogs "need" veggies, but if you feel they're important, by all means include them!.... However I no longer include veggies every day or even every week since doing my own research. I now believe that dogs are not capable of digesting them, even with the veggies being cooked or pulverized (the pancreas would have to work harder to compensate for the lack of enzymes). ....

Well, I think that dogs actually do seem to naturally produce the enzyme set that processes non-cellulose vegetable matter, which is a different set from the grain-digesting set (with overlap, but the major grain-processing enzymes are not naturally produced by dogs).

That's kind of a convoluted subject, because enzymes in the raw produce itself are part of the set. (This is why so many canine nutrition researchers prefer that dogs who get produce eat raw-but-processed vegetables.)

Also, the acid in the digestive system of the prey has contributed toward the breakdown of the cell walls.

For all these reasons and more, there are varied opinions about whether and in what condition we should feed produce.

Even the evidence about wild canids eating the partly-digested produce in their kill's stomach isn't universally interpreted the same way.

The most convincing evidence -- to me -- says that wild canids do eat ripe berries and fruit and probably very young greens and shoots, and that they eat all of small prey, including the stomach contents. To me, that means I want to approximate this in what I feed, as closely as I can.

OTOH, others read the same research and draw completely different conclusions.

Green tripe (green from the chlorophyl in the partly-digested grass) is probably a great way to feed produce to dogs.

I am on a quest to find a supplier where I live.

This is all JMO, and others' opinions vary --- almost as much as opinions about what foods humans need most.

 Quote: AnitaGard

Not to worry. The chocolate's for me. I don't even share it with my kids.

Deer hooves -- may taste similar to horse hooves. When I used to have a horse, and the farrier came to shoe other horses (I was a maverick on that subject and kept mine barefoot - even the farrier admitted he had the best feet in the barn and that was probably why). Where was I? Oh yes - anyway, the barn dogs would go nuts, hanging around the horse being shod, waiting for those yummy hoof trimmings to go flying their way. The dogs cleaned up every last piece. So yes, it makes sense they would like deer hooves. My dog also loves (raw) pigs feet. Chewy, great taste, less filling.

Do pigs have hoof-y feet too? Or are they more like tougher pigskin?

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Ugh. Unfortunately, people WILL listen to her. Yes, wild animals don't live as long. It must be because they eat what nature intended them to eat! Not! Hmm, could it be b/c they have no access at all to medical care, and therefore die of injuries? Get hit by cars? Sometimes starve? Get diseases? Scary how someone can be called Dr. and be sooo narrow minded. She's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Yes and also we practically have moved alot of wild animals out of their territories onto others and so the food is more scares and they are killed by humans more because we live in their back yard! That Dr. should take a good look at what we are doing to the wild life.......... moving them out

Anita, that's so cool about the horse hooves!
I guess it isn't so unusual for my pup to be so crazy about the hooves.
Most horses at my barn wear shoes on all feet, but some of them, with harder feet, seem to be fine without them. I noticed that a lot of the more delicate horses (like thoroughbreds) have more of a problem going barefoot... what type of horse was yours?

Connie, green tripe is extremely stinky and you'll have to wash your hands several times to get the smell off after handling it
Dogs go crazy for that stuff though; I feed green tripe all the time (usually 2-3 times a week).

Best way to get it is probably to go directly to a butcher who slaughters the cows (or whatever animal you want the tripe from).
I'm very lucky because my pup's breeder works for two different butchers and she pretty much pulls the tripe directly out of the freshly slaughtered carcasses, freezes them, and gives them to me!

I found some sites that sell the stuff, but it seems really expensive...

Good luck in your search. It's a lot of fun if you can buy it whole (instead of ground up) cause dogs tend to give tripe the "death shake" as they eat it. Hee hee, very entertaining to watch...

 Quote: yuko blum

Connie, green tripe is extremely stinky and you'll have to wash your hands several times to get the smell off after handling it
Dogs go crazy for that stuff though; I feed green tripe all the time (usually 2-3 times a week).

Best way to get it is probably to go directly to a butcher who slaughters the cows (or whatever animal you want the tripe from).
I'm very lucky because my pup's breeder works for two different butchers and she pretty much pulls the tripe directly out of the freshly slaughtered carcasses, freezes them, and gives them to me!

I found some sites that sell the stuff, but it seems really expensive...

Good luck in your search. It's a lot of fun if you can buy it whole (instead of ground up) cause dogs tend to give tripe the "death shake" as they eat it. Hee hee, very entertaining to watch...

Yes, I have fed it ground up (frozen), and even that was truly revolting , but I would like to get it the way you do (and you are very fortunate; you're feeding produce in the form that's probably closest to the way a wild canid would get it).

I think it's one of the very top ways to feed produce to dogs. Talk about enzymes and probiotics!

It's too bad white tripe (which has generally been boiled and bleached) has very little to add to a canine's diet, because that's what's easy to find.

JMO.

P.S. On top of all its other virtues, I have read that the form you get actually serves as a good tooth cleaner; the pieces are loaded with gastric enzymes that help clean the dog's teeth and the rubber-band qualities make it act like floss.

I'm sure the ground up frozen version is better than none, but I would love to find a source for what you have.